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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Jun 18, 2018 12:37:51 GMT -5
Amazing, a man so negatively assessed spearheaded the largest most economically viable movement in the history of Diaspora. www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/14/black-history-month-marcus-garvey/1004478001/And poor continentals, too stupid to develop their own, must adopt and adapt from other families of humankind who are intelligent enough to see their own way through their own unique situations without borrowing an African way. No, this cannot be done on the 'net nor see the value convrrsing real time. Either folks know about • Go south black man • Nation Time • Afrika (with a K) or they don't. Black Nationalist Pan African Freedom Struggle wasn't isn't, and won't ever be soley civil rights struggle. Fear of "Negroes with Guns" and rebellions in big cities is why the USA conceded rights. Of course the Black masses rejected the Black Nationalist Pan African Freedom Struggle. Why they even shut down their own entrepreneurial enterprises in the mad rush to force former segregationist businesses to take their money. Damn that pigheaded Garvey and his Buy Black keep the money circulating within the communities teachings. Afrikans in America are a different breed, They recognize themselves not as a minority but as an internal colony. Niyabingi Bruh 'Nansi's reverie, though Rasta tinged, is of the tail end of any popularity of a progressive conscious mindset. That is a personal decision left each individual. Individualism and lack of consciousness mark our times today. =-=-= Corruption isn't limited to continentals. blackamericaweb.com/playlist/politicians-doing-time-for-their-crime/item/269665www.blackstarnews.com/us-politics/justice/corrupt-politicians-shame-legacy-of-black-political-and-civil-rights-struggleMoney Power Sex. One, or any combo, will get you. Corruption's solution is mass action. Only the body of people suffering its ill effects can end it once they summon the will or become totally fed up. But that takes like ... forever.
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Post by zarahan on Jun 18, 2018 12:41:03 GMT -5
Nigerian vs East Asia war?? No!!!! Pitting and manipulating Africans against each other (within and without) has proven been successfully over the years. Seku vs Lumumba, Coard vs Bishop, Garvey vs Du Bois. Biafra-Nigeria, South Sudan-Sudan. It never fails. When Nigeria poses a real threat ..”it would be taken care of”. Enemies will be “created” either from within or outside. And so many of us are gullible. I am not that close to African politics but I understand corruption is rampant …via the media. But what I read in the press I always second guess. I know the images of Africa seen on TV is not real because the numbers don’t add up, but I am not sure how far Africa has come along. A whirlwind tour is needed. Lol! A firsthand look see. Lol! To Sages point we have to do our own thing but as you said and I agree we do not need a scorched earth mentality. To be honest Europeans take care of their environment. They take care of their living space. A friend of mine sent me a video that disturbed her and she is not “conscious”. I was shocked to learn that some Africans countries take in or are paid to take the toxic waste of China and Europe. There are these young men going through piles of garbage looking for “Valuables” as 100’s of acres of waste are burnt. It was alarming then it hit me. I loaded up my truck once with radiators and old central HVAC to take to the metal scrap yard, after refurbishing . Dumping it on the ground and I was about to take off and a fight broke out. In Philadelphia young men do also fight over scraps looking for “valuables”. It was an eye opener for me. As I said it more the haves and the have nots(people who are caught up). We will be fine! Once they don’t press that button. One of my main concern though is the targeting of black men and women to become homosexuals. I think that is a bigger danger. Plus I am seeing an uptick in the “push” in “biracial” couples. These advertisement are deliberate. I am not sure what the end game is. I have no problem with love across the color line. But if white power brokers are pushing it. Can it be good for black people? We know their end game is always to benefit their group and not humanity as a whole. That is how they rose to power. Good points all. WIthout a doubt- division, diversion and deception is what they use just as in the days of old Marcus Garvey. I read somewhere that Garvey's last lawyer went to work after his deportation for the US govt, the same government that sandbagged and eventually tried to crush him. Exactly how much did this lawyer really fight for Marcus? Same thing with the purchase of the leaky tubs of the Black Star Line. And how is it that the Cuban regime quickly confiscated the cargo of the main ship for alleged "unpaid" bills in New York? Why was not the matter referred BACK TO New York for court battles to be fought THERE? Why mess with the cargo, unless, again, it was to sandbag and destroy? On whose orders, or under whose influence, were they acting? Again, the hidden hand of corrupt deception, striking, and strangling from the shadows?
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Post by zarahan on Jun 18, 2018 12:41:53 GMT -5
Re the corruption thing- it is well documented. I do not buy into narratives of a pure, oh so meritorious, West versus those evil Africans. The West is pretty corrupt, and you will always have some "dash" or "slack" in the course of commerce and government.
The problem is when the "slack" begins to overwhelm and create real damage and hindrance. Out-of-hand corruption is a real problem - as shown in almost every credible study. A lot of Africans today are tired of it, and tired of "liberation" slogans and boilerplate being trotted out to provide cover for, or to derail legit criticism. Look at SOuth Africa today, and how the neo-liberal establishment co-opted Mandela and the rest- and the poverty of the masses, and the entrenched corruption, the snail's pace of land reform, the gutting of public sector services and so on. A grassroots movement of the masses is tired of the crap.
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Post by zarahan on Jun 18, 2018 12:42:15 GMT -5
I wish I could be as optimistic as you. Unless certain things are turned around it may just get worse. Re the targeting, I think it is a problem, particular the young and attractive. I see that in my neck of the woods, with females particularly, though to be balanced, people of that persuasion have always been around and deserve their space. Some folk go overboard with the "outside influence" argument, and lose credibility in debates- like Charlie Bass years ago who claimed that there were no homosexuals in sub-saharan Africa, an area of almost 1 billion people, until the white man came. That's clearly nonsense. It is not that some folk swing that way (if that's their preference, hey man, live-and-let live- and there has been tolerance given). That's not the problem. The key issues is how its being pushed in-your-face and valorized as mainstream normal, rather than the live-and-let-live outliers and subcultures of the past. And the people in the lead of that pushing are white Westerners. Many African churchmen are on the case when they point this out.
SOme argue that the Black Lives Matter group is an attempt to push "normalization" through use of hot button issues, as the gay founders and collaborators usually manage to mention "queer communities" in their spiels. But to paraphrase Malcolm X, you ain't catching hell cause you Methodist, or Catholic, you catching hell cuz you black. Critics in the Black community raise the same point, as to the "dilution" and "sidetracking" effects. Is there another agenda at work? I think the group raises legit issues and whatever their founders are is irrelevant in that sense. Still questions and critics on the "hidden agenda" issue persist. There are a number of videos on this on Youtube? I think? Folks have any links?
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Post by zarahan on Jun 18, 2018 12:43:11 GMT -5
Re the biracial thing, I don’t see it as much of a significant issue on many levels, mostly because at present "hookup" rates, black folk will not be disappearing soon, and based on current levels of racism, "alt-right" gains etc etc. biracial folk will still be "black" for quite a while.
Still some argue that the PUBLIC and MEDIA PUSH of biracial imagery, is not really about biracials but about 'pushing a "tolerance" line for the gay thing. In other words, just as gays were successful in using old bans on interracial marriage to push for gay marriage, so they are using the "biracial" imagery to push for an expansion of "queer communities" among blacks. In other words, its a front or cover for that agenda. That's the end game. Thus if you accept biracial couples, you MUST then accept gay ones. If you don't then you are a racist hypocrite. This is an effective line of argument on some levels used by gays, but many black critics do not buy it, and see an illegitimate "piggy-backing" on, or co-optation of black civil rights struggles for another agenda.
I am of the live-and-let-live school and my own reading shows biracials are nothing new. Moses married an Ethiopian over 5k years ago, IN the Nile Valley Nubians and Asiatics/Mesopotamians were hooking up for centuries. And when blacks came to America they freely "hooked up" interacially with white indentured servants. It is the growth of slavery that made legitimate black-white marriages and common law unions "illegal", so the white slave kleptocracy could keep and suppress a captive black labor force for its profit. When in the 1960s people were hailing removal of state IR marriage bans as something new and great, it was BS. The IR hookups were already allowed, and legal, in days past. The supposedly "new rights" were simply a restoration of what black folk had BEFORE. Hell even in many Spanish colonies IR unions were common for centuries.. AIn't nothing "new".. Such history again makes black critics suspicious of various agendas pushing "new' rights trying to link black struggles with something else..
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Post by zarahan on Jun 18, 2018 12:45:03 GMT -5
One final angle is the "mestizoization" angle. White power brokers can divide and rule as in South America. A more affluent "colored" layer, and a dark one at the bottom. The old "if you black, get back" model- new year, new labels but same bottom line. I think reality is more complex than this, and people are entitled to go with whom they want, and are not necessarily "dupes" of any power broker manipulation, nor are they "traitors" to the black community. The biracials are Still gonna be black for a long time.
There is a scenario some have raised questions about as to the "creaming off" of the brightest and most attractive. Some black women claim this re- "all the good black men" are gone t IR unions, but thise seems overblown to me. So far its mostly men, but it could be in years to come, as wit Asian women, the best and brightest black women will be "opting out" as well, away from dark "Raekwon," to pale "Ryan". I don’t blame black women if they make this choice- what they supposed to do- wait around forever for Prince Charming to step up? But I don’t see much of this happening anytime soon, or in significant volumes, and such will not really disturb the framework of the white power brokers.
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Post by zarahan on Jun 18, 2018 12:52:41 GMT -5
Amazing, a man so negatively assessed spearheaded the largest most economically viable movement in the history of Diaspora.
And poor continentals, too stupid to develop their own, must adopt and adapt from other families of humankind.
No, this cannot be done on the 'net nor see the value convrrsing real time.
Either folks know about • Go south black man • Nation Time • Afrika (with a K) or they don't. Black Nationalist Pan African Freedom Struggle wasn't isn't, and won't ever be soley civil rights struggle. Fear of "Negroes with Guns" and rebellions in big cities is why the USA conceded rights.
Of course the Black masses rejected the Black Nationalist Pan African Freedom Struggle. Why they even shut down their own entrepreneurial enterprises in the mad rush to make the former segregationist businesses take their money. Damn that pigheaded Garvey and his Buy Black keep the money circulating within the communities teachings.
Afrikans in America are a different breed.
Bruh 'Nansi lament, though Rasta tinged, is of the end times of any popularity of a progressive conscious mindset.
=-=-=
Corruption isn't limited to continentals. blackamericaweb.com/playlist/politicians-doing-time-for-their-crime/item/269665
Corruption's solution is mass action. Only the body of people suffering its ill effects can end it once they summon the will or become totally fed up. But that takes like forever. Indeed, the tragedy of Garvey is that so much of the money he raised was wasted, and how his movement collapsed as a mass entity within a few years of his ending battle on US soil. The disillusionment of his followers is well documented. Implementation as in so many places, is the downfall. But still his overall vision was the right one. The vision of self-sufficient trading strength was the right one. The EXECUTION, like over-paying for leaky, shaky vessels was wrong. And again, these issues were pointed out at the time of execution. Garvey might have done better to simply lease cargo space until he had a viable merchandise, cargo and production network in place . But this takes slow years of unglamorous toil and work, not the immediate, electrifying, flashy publicity of the Black Star Line. Here again, Garvey's failure as a manager, and his inability to get competent people in place, while he concentrated on doing what he did best- public promotion. Most of UNIA's cash went into those overpriced, crappy boats, cash put up and sacrificed by thousands of ordinary black folk- wasted. The lesson for today is to not get carried away with flash and dash projects of would-be charismatic messiahs, although some flash is necessary to mobilize the masses. Patient, shrewd work, hard-nosed management, and tight organization, like the Japs and today's Chinese and Koreans, and today's Caribbean and African immigrants, is what will succeed in the long haul. I agree that mass action when people are fed up is what will turn things around. It may not take forever. Mass action removed some entrenched kleptocrats. True some were replaced by lesser kleptocrats, but with growing awareness, particularly among the digitally-savvy young, the prospects may be better in years to come. The grassroots movements in SOuth Africa might be an example. And you are right on how some strengths were given away in the rush to integrate, although we have to be careful not to play into hands of white racist who use "aint integration awful" or "integration was a disaster for blacks" arguments, in order to justify their apartheid Jim Crow regime, and today housing discrimination. After all, if integration was so bad for black folk, well then, they don;t need to be buying houses in our white neighborhood. Let them stay in the ghetto areas. They are deploying this argument, and som black folk are letting them get away with it.
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Jun 18, 2018 13:11:26 GMT -5
So you think the uptick in biracial advertisement and the like is tied to the push for “normalization” of homosexuality. Hmmm! I don’t see it that way. But you may be right. I always looked at these as two separate issues just as black liberation cannot be equated to gay acceptance. Agreed it is a sub-culture that may have always been in existence but there is a hard push now for it to be normalized.
But back to Garvey. I never knew he or X “talked’ with the KKK. What was the context? Who was buying and who selling?
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Post by zarahan on Jun 18, 2018 13:15:30 GMT -5
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Jun 18, 2018 13:40:25 GMT -5
What?
The solution to 'hood rat living is white suburbia?
Duh, there are plenty black communities that arent slums.
Even rural black communities, poor maybe but, not urban 'hoods
Let me get back to my planet. Niyabingi to Kawaida isn't here. I'm not in this loop at all.
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Post by anansi on Jun 18, 2018 14:32:32 GMT -5
OK hear I & I for a second noh!!¿??, Garvey had it pon lock down, however in a mass movement such as the UNIA he needed trusted LT and a few more commanders, didn't seh, he didn't delegate ,he did but often to the wrong ppl, his personal sectary Amy Jacques was among his most important soldiers, she could have headed the Dora Milaje in a Wakanda made real by the visionary Marcus Garvey, but it was often lonely at the top, his personal temperament that brook no descent, was not unlike Shaka of the Zulus, but for a few key personnel the black world might have been different.
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Post by zarahan on Jun 18, 2018 22:38:13 GMT -5
Indeed. I have respect for Marcus Mosiah Garvey. For decades I thought he could do no wrong. It is only in the last few years, thanks to the magic of Google, (and cheap used books ordered online) when I was struggling to understand what the heck went wrong, that a clearer, more detailed picture emerges. Like you say, if only he had vetted plans thoroughly and delegated the admin to competent and loyal people. But in a mass movement, where you roll with charisma, such failures are all too common. And he was dealt a harsh hand to start. The vile J Edgar Hoover partly made his rep taking down Mosiah.
M.L. King too by most detailed accounts was a poor administrator. He even fell foul of Rosa Parks for failing to keep up with job promises and payroll. And he too, some 40 years later, was targeted for destruction by the vile hand of J Edgar Hoover, striking often in cowardly mode, from the shadows.
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