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Post by zarahan on Jun 28, 2018 21:48:27 GMT -5
Since when? www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-military-djibouti-idUSKCN12D0C4 Defense Minister Tomomi Inada is briefed Monday by senior Self-Defense Forces personnel in Djibouti on their anti-piracy mission off Somalia TOKYO (Reuters) - Japan will lease additional land next year to expand a military base in Djibouti, eastern Africa, as a counterweight to what it sees as growing Chinese influence in the region, three Japanese government sources said. Japan's Defence Minister Tomomi Inada (front, R) is briefed by senior Self-Defense Forces personnel about their anti-piracy mission off Somalia, in Djibouti, August 15, 2016. Mandatory credit Kyodo/via REUTERS China is seeking closer ties with African nations that could help it gain access to natural resources and provide new markets. Beijing said late last year it would pump $60 billion into development projects on the continent, cancel some debt and help boost agriculture. Earlier this year, Japan also pledged to increase its support to infrastructure, education and healthcare projects in Africa, committing an extra $30 billion in public and private support. “China is putting money into new infrastructure and raising its presence in Djibouti, and it is necessary for Japan gain more influence,” said one of the sources, with knowledge of the plan. China in February began construction in Djibouti of its first overseas military facility, a coastal logistics base that will resupply naval vessels taking part in peacekeeping and humanitarian missions. Djibouti, which is about the size of Wales, is strategically located at the southern entrance to the Red Sea on the route to the Suez Canal. The tiny, barren nation sandwiched between Ethiopia, Eritrea and Somalia, also hosts U.S. and French bases. Since 2011, a Japanese Self Defence Force contingent of 180 troops has occupied a 12 hectare (30 acre) site in Djibouti, next to Camp Lemonnier, the U.S. base at the country’s international airport. From there, the SDF have operated maritime patrol aircraft as part of an international force, including China, that hunts pirates in the seas of the Gulf of Aden and off the coast of Somalia. A Japanese Defence Ministry spokesman confirmed discussions were taking place. “In addition to the land Japan has borrowed, it is considering leasing the neighboring land to its east,” the spokesman said in response to a Reuters query. “Japan is now in negotiations with Djibouti government.” Asked about the plans, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said Japan’s military and security policies had garnered attention in Asia for historical reasons. “We hope Japan can draw lessons from history, conform with the times, and truly follow the path of peaceful development,” Geng told a daily news briefing in Beijing. Japan is considering deploying C-130 transport aircraft, Bushmaster armored vehicles and extra personnel to the base but has not yet decided on how many, the sources said. The size of the extra leased land would be smaller than the existing base and was expected to cost around $1 million a year, they added. Tokyo will justify the expansion of personnel and aircraft in the Horn of Africa by pointing to a need to have aircraft there to evacuate Japanese citizens from nearby trouble spots or areas hit by natural disasters, the sources said. Minister of Defence Tomomi Inada traveled to Djibouti in August, where she said Tokyo was considering expanding the “function” of the Japanese base. She didn’t, however, indicate that new land would be added. A month earlier Japan sent three C-130 aircraft from Japan to stand by in Djibouti for the evacuation of Japanese citizens trapped by fighting in South Sudan’s capital, Juba. The mission, only the second ever undertaken by SDF transport aircraft, showed the increasing ability of Japan’s military to conduct operations far from home. Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is seeking to give the SDF a greater regional and global role as his nation steps back from seven decades of state pacifism. Writing by Tim Kelly; Additional reporting by Michael Martina in Beijing; Editing by Lincoln Feast and Clarence Fernandez |
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Post by anansi on Jun 29, 2018 2:23:36 GMT -5
Yup, but not without a vocal opposition from many Japanese, who want no parts in foreign entanglements, as it's against their constitution ,and they had lived in relative peace so far, to have an offensive force,folks are generally not pleased.
Countering the Chinese presence in Africa?? too little too late methinks, plus Japan cannot outspend the Chinese right now, they have an economy that's slowing and a population that's aging and not replenishing itself, 20-30 yrs ago when they did have the money they could've, but they choose to buy up American real estate instead, the train have already left the station IMO.
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Post by nebsen on Jun 29, 2018 18:54:59 GMT -5
Yup, but not without a vocal opposition from many Japanese, who want no parts in foreign entanglements, as it's against their constitution ,and they had lived in relative peace so far, to have an offensive force,folks are generally not pleased. Countering the Chinese presence in Africa?? too little too late methinks, plus Japan cannot outspend the Chinese right now, they have an economy that's slowing and a population that's aging and not replenishing itself, 20-30 yrs ago when they did have the money they could've, but they choose to buy up American real estate instead, the train have already left the station IMO. Anansi, I think you are right on many points. China for me is potentially a horrible" Dragon, " on the Continent of Africa esp. in the future when the full impact of China's true intention becomes more fully known But PLO Lumumba has been going around Africa with a clarion call to Action to up & coming young leaders & the older ones, who will listen. Before it's too late , I hope they pay attention & take action to his" Truth Telling " ! |
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Post by kel on Jun 29, 2018 21:36:08 GMT -5
China is no threat at all in Africa.
They have NO capability whatsoever to defend any of they have built in Africa. Furthermore they can be cutoff at will at any time.
The entire African continent is surrounded by water........
The only card China can play with regards to Africa is 'good neighbor'.....and this is their plan.
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Post by nebsen on Jun 30, 2018 2:54:45 GMT -5
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Post by anansi on Jun 30, 2018 6:11:33 GMT -5
China is no threat at all in Africa. They have NO capability whatsoever to defend any of they have built in Africa. Furthermore they can be cutoff at will at any time. The entire African continent is surrounded by water........ The only card China can play with regards to Africa is 'good neighbor'.....and this is their plan. I wouldn't take much comfort in that Kel-san , do you know who else have long distances across vast stretches of ocean waters and could yet project power anywhere they damned well please??..Europe and it's daughter colonies, they have done so a half a millennia ago, BTW the Chinese have a Carrier fleet and they just attached a rail gun to their ship. Is China an existential threat to Africa, that may largely be dependant on Africans themselves, do they have the will to created an African fighting force similar to NATO, or will they allow themselves to be divided by the good Ol carrot or the stick single nation approach,, ex Allowing foreign bases anywhere on the continent. (Djibouti.) |
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Post by kel on Jun 30, 2018 11:11:06 GMT -5
that was then. this is now. China is no threat to Africa nor anyone else for that matter.
they are too vulnerable themselves: no water, have to import energy from huge distances, far away from having a deep water navy that could protect those lanes much less project power, far too much internal instability, and now an aging population that is in terminal decline.............
all the China mongering is way off base. Africans so far are smart - take all you can get while you can get it.
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Post by nebsen on Jun 30, 2018 16:24:22 GMT -5
China is no threat at all in Africa. They have NO capability whatsoever to defend any of they have built in Africa. Furthermore they can be cutoff at will at any time. The entire African continent is surrounded by water........ The only card China can play with regards to Africa is 'good neighbor'.....and this is their plan. I wouldn't take much comfort in that Kel-san , do you know who else have long distances across vast stretches of ocean waters and could yet project power anywhere they damned well please??..Europe and it's daughter colonies, they have done so a half a millennia ago, BTW the Chinese have a Carrier fleet and they just attached a rail gun to their ship. Is China an existential threat to Africa, that may largely be dependant on Africans themselves, do they have the will to created an African fighting force similar to NATO, or will they allow themselves to be divided by the good Ol carrot or the stick single nation approach,, ex Allowing foreign bases anywhere on the continent. (Djibouti.) To help explain China's new involvement in Africa |
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Post by africurious on Jun 30, 2018 22:05:09 GMT -5
I don’t understand this emphasis on China as a big bogeyman in Africa. The US and France even Britain have been much bigger threats to Africa, involving themselves in African domestic matters and overthrowing govt’s to put in new leadership more agreeable to their ends. I haven’t seen much evidence of what China is doing that is so much more of a threat than the US or France. Mostly what I hear is vague innuendo. It seems ppl are just reacting based off what’s being presented in western or western-slanted media. Not much was/is being reported when America and W Euro make deals but China’s moves are watched like a hawk. Ok China has a military base in Africa. So? The US and France have several. And of any major power France is the one that is definitely out for a neocolonialist agenda as has been demonstrated by their actions upon their colonies’ “independence” and even a sort of admission from their former prez. China and Japan are out for themselves in Africa as all outside powers are but so what is new?
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Post by kel on Jun 30, 2018 22:45:21 GMT -5
Exactly. China is a non-issue.
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Post by nebsen on Jun 30, 2018 23:41:58 GMT -5
Well, I'm not leaving out the history of the European powers, check out video with PLO Lumumba, which he details the colonial powers in Africa with the new addition of China, which has come to Africa with a much more diplomatic nuance; but can be just as deadly . what the old e saying," beware of strangers baring gifts ."Is China the Trojan Horse??
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Post by anansi on Jul 1, 2018 2:48:07 GMT -5
Well, I'm not leaving out the history of the European powers, check out video with PLO Lumumba, which he details the colonial powers in Africa with the new addition of China, which has come to Africa with a much more diplomatic nuance; but can be just as deadly . what the old e saying," beware of strangers baring gifts ."Is China the Trojan Horse?? Well I certainly wasn't implying old enemies of African sovereignty be given a pass, just that one cannot allowed the same mistakes of the past, African govt gave western govt licence to setup bases in their lands and asked for their help in dealing with African issues that should be and can be solved by Africans themselves, thus setting themselves up for further resource grabs under the guise of "Security" we have all seen this movie before..why are Chinese and Japanese bases in Africa again?? Sorry Nebsen the above response was to Kel and Africurious. |
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Post by nebsen on Jul 1, 2018 3:17:48 GMT -5
Well, I'm not leaving out the history of the European powers, check out video with PLO Lumumba, which he details the colonial powers in Africa with the new addition of China, which has come to Africa with a much more diplomatic nuance; but can be just as deadly . what the old e saying," beware of strangers baring gifts ."Is China the Trojan Horse?? Well I certainly wasn't implying old enemies of African sovereignty be given a pass, just that one cannot allowed the same mistakes of the past, African govt gave western govt licence to setup bases in their lands and asked for their help in dealing with African issues that should be and can be solved by Africans themselves, thus setting themselves up for further resource grabs under the guise of "Security" we have all seen this movie before..why are Chinese and Japanese bases in Africa again?? Sorry Nebsen the above response was to Kel and Africurious. My response was for Kel & Africurious also, for I'm in agreement with your take on the issue ! |
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Post by kel on Jul 2, 2018 10:29:07 GMT -5
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Post by africurious on Jul 2, 2018 10:41:19 GMT -5
Well, I'm not leaving out the history of the European powers, check out video with PLO Lumumba, which he details the colonial powers in Africa with the new addition of China, which has come to Africa with a much more diplomatic nuance; but can be just as deadly . what the old e saying," beware of strangers baring gifts ."Is China the Trojan Horse?? Well I certainly wasn't implying old enemies of African sovereignty be given a pass, just that one cannot allowed the same mistakes of the past, African govt gave western govt licence to setup bases in their lands and asked for their help in dealing with African issues that should be and can be solved by Africans themselves, thus setting themselves up for further resource grabs under the guise of "Security" we have all seen this movie before..why are Chinese and Japanese bases in Africa again?? Sorry Nebsen the above response was to Kel and Africurious. My response is very different from what Kel is saying. Kel is saying China is a “non-issue” and “no threat to Africa”. I’m saying China may be a threat but I haven’t seen any evidence they’re particularly worse than the other 2 main non-continental actors: US, France. This thread and previous ones have reflected the general tenor in media of China being particularly bad for Africa hence my statements and questions. What are some examples of non-continental govts setting up bases in order to “grab resources” in the post-colonial period? If by “grab” you mean “steal” I can’t think of any. African govts are eager sellers, there’re well-managed international markets to trade raw materials, no African country is blocked from selling openly to any country by a colonial master. Those 3 reasons make it unnecessary to spend huge amounts of money to set up bases in Africa and use one’s military to “grab resources”. That only made sense in the colonial period. If the bases were all about stealing resources then Congo DRC would’ve had a major base as it’s army is weak, keeps being threatened both internally and from Rwanda and it’s extremely resource rich. I’m sure the govt would love to have a big base there as guarantee from being overthrown. Instead there’s a small outpost run by the US in far NE border to help catch the madman Kony. The US’s biggest base in Africa by far is in Djibouti, China’s lone base is there too, and many other countries have bases there. Djibouti doesn’t have a lot of resources. The reason so many countries are there militarily is the strategic logistical point of the bab al-mandeb which is one of the most important shipping lanes in the world. Also for the US it’s also a good logistical spot to ferry men and equipment to the nearby strategic areas in the Middle East. In fact, the US’s many bases in Africa seem to be there to allow it the opportunity to have transit spots across the continent so it can militarily move almost anywhere and to fight terrorism. See this article here that outlines the many outposts the US has in Africa (while most media coverage and layman talk is focused on the bogeyman China): tonyseed.wordpress.com/2016/05/25/us-empire-of-african-bases/I agree that African countries should in general not have foreign run bases on their soil as it can always lead to interference by the foreigner. But as far as African govts solving african military problems often they can’t or are unwilling to help each other in certain instances. Example, what countries in Africa were able and willing to help Mali turn back the Islamist attack a few years ago? Such aid cost lots of money and requires multi-year commitment. Also, just because a fellow country is African doesn’t mean it’s your friend. Congo had intermittent wars that killed 4million people and many surrounding countries jumped in. Uganda in particular stole a whole lot of resources from Congolese territory they controlled. One of the chief invaders/murderers of Congo was a group controlled by Rwanda govt. Many African govts don’t care about their own ppl so it should be expected some of them will behave horribly on foreign land. |
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