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Post by anansi on Apr 4, 2019 12:29:05 GMT -5
To Xyyman [ The study has triggered anger among several Egyptian archaeologists who have questioned the results. Egyptologist Zahi Hawass described the studies as “hallucinations” and told Al-Ahram Weekly that they were not accurate for several reasons. The mummies that were subjected to the DNA tests dated to the Graeco-Roman period when the mummification process was very poor, he said. They also belonged to people who came from Italy or to Greeks who lived in ancient Egypt and not to native ancient Egyptians. “How can the ancient Egyptians be genetically from Europe,” Hawass asked, adding that when the ancient Egyptians were busy building their civilisation Europe did not exist in civilisational terms. There is no scientific or archaeological evidence that could support such results,” Hawass said, adding that the only discovery that scientists think could indicate the origin of the ancient Egyptians was the Naqad Necropolis discovered by archaeologist Flinders Petrie which houses a collection of tombs from the prehistoric period. “The ancient Egyptians have Egyptian genes, which are not similar to African or Arab genes,” Hawass said.] english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/9/40/270666/Heritage/Ancient-Egypt/Not-out-of-Africa.aspx
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Apr 4, 2019 14:04:13 GMT -5
Thread's waking up the old and dead? Can't force nobody to change their mind. Deeply held prejudices mar any extremist position. In Yte World AE was black up to Napoleon's expedition with its beautiful Denon sketches (the book is the size of a human torso). www.napoleon.org/en/history-of-the-two-empires/images/the-sphinx-near-the-pyramids-being-measured-by-members-of-the-academy-of-egypt/Since then to now and the far future Yte World has built and will continue to build sciences to support AE was not black. And no, at no time was AE from Aswan down to the Mediterranean 100% black. An 100% black AE misrepresents independent black scholarship in the favor of Blackeccentric Wishism/Wishology. Diop, ben Jochannan, nor Chancellor Wms ever posited such a thing. Narmer's palette clearly presents clining phenotypic diversity similar to but not the same as today. Apparently AE always recognized influx from, and via, its butt close neighbors Nubia, coastal Libya, and the Levant. There's one style of art displaying Aegean influence per Diop but I can't vet that. They look like typical Naqada ivory "tag" pieces. www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009994Anyway Back in 2017 Mensamind Xyyman posted some snippets from the Schuenemann & Krause pre-pub peer review nature.com/article-assets/npg/ncomms/2017/170530/ncomms15694/extref/ncomms15694-s7.pdf qv. On the new horizon Xyyman is grounding himself to run the 3 Abusir mummified head data against an African informative reference set robust with relevant samples that make more sense than the ol' Yoruba or way West Africa standbys Yte World prefers (continuation and expansion of their old true negro myth they invented to tightly compartmentalize black phenotypic kaleidoscope reality to a one and only true negro vs many fake negros. If not pure true negro then must be admixed fake negro. That's the current trend negro genoHamiticist seem on, with their Eurasian driven position on 'indigenous' African substructure).
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jhosx
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Post by jhosx on Apr 4, 2019 19:58:32 GMT -5
Does anyone know anyone other than Keita who criticize this study? There has been subtle racism in place for a long time where people won't accept the work of black people on Egypt. I think if someone less melanin enriched came at the paper, people would finally see how much of a joke it is. It's a sad, but unfortunate reality. I think there is, however I'm not into validation based off what ppl looked like, them having a white person to invalidate the study??..sorry not playing their game, as it is woefully unfair to Black scientists not to mention disrespectful, a study is either valid or not. I agree, and it 100% is not fair to all who have dedicated their lives to proving all of this. But there are really only two ways we can win out here. Either beat them at their own game, or come up with a better one. To beat them at their own, we have to search for those 'reputable' sources that aren't afraid to call them out on the shady stuff they're trying to do, because some people, including the people who are the 'authorities' in this matter, are still very racist when it comes to these kinds of things. They are the only people the masses and the media will listen to, so one method of attack would be flinging as many of those at them as possible. Think back to Bernal. He said himself they would have never have given him a chance to speak on things if he wasn't white. If you share the well done critiques by our best black scholars, they will look up their names and mentally engage in a sort of racial ad hominem. "They're an afro-centrist", or if they're gonna resort to the memes. Using them alone is not an effective strategy. The other way to beat them, and my preferred method of doing so, is leading with a white name, then throw in a Diop. Do another white one, then give them a Sertima. This is the most respectful and effective way to go about doing this. There are a couple things I have noticed. They can't argue with photos, and they definitely can't argue with photos and data. We win by creating a repository of data, knowledge, and images that are impossible to deny. If you've ever argued with the opposition, you'd realize that they really do have nothing when it comes to this. They always resort back to the same things. They have the 2017 study, the debunked King Tut Euro DNA story, the fake Nefertiti statue, statues from the roman era, and maybe some photos of mummies with hair damaged from the mummification process. We simply have more compelling evidence than them, and if we bring that all into one place and bring that to light in a way that's not obnoxious or malicious, we can set the record straight.
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jhosx
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Post by jhosx on Apr 4, 2019 20:12:41 GMT -5
but at the same time: "“How can the ancient Egyptians be genetically from Europe,” Hawass asked, adding that when the ancient Egyptians were busy building their civilisation Europe did not exist in civilisational terms." Lol. This man is confused. He's still right about the inaccuracies of the study though. Good stuff.
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Post by anansi on Apr 4, 2019 21:08:27 GMT -5
jhosx said:[ roman era, and maybe some photos of mummies with hair damaged from the mummification ] Ok ok if they insist on hair, give em a twofer ..hair and white Ppl with degrees sayz so! youtu.be/uvEyaeZ0G4Eyoutu.be/zDkScLTwJ4EPt2 is particularly interesting for the purpose of this thread as it covered the New Kingdom era with the introduction of new type of combs in grave goods that ("may") have signified new or mixed hair type of an incoming group.
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Post by kel on Apr 4, 2019 21:36:35 GMT -5
3500 BC .............that is the Early Bronze Age ......."SubSaharans" in what is essentially the so called Near East. To openly admit this would open up more cans of worms since these areas are the 'cradles of civilization.'
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jhosx
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Post by jhosx on Apr 4, 2019 22:33:33 GMT -5
jhosx said:[ roman era, and maybe some photos of mummies with hair damaged from the mummification ] Ok ok if they insist on hair, give em a twofer ..hair and white Ppl with degrees sayz so! youtu.be/uvEyaeZ0G4Eyoutu.be/zDkScLTwJ4EPt2 is particularly interesting for the purpose of this thread as it covered the New Kingdom era with the introduction of new type of combs in grave goods that ("may") have signified new or mixed hair type of an incoming group. will check it out in the morning. I've only recently been getting into Ashton's videos. She's a really brave lady for doing what she's been doing for the past decade.
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jhosx
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Post by jhosx on Apr 4, 2019 22:41:10 GMT -5
3500 BC .............that is the Early Bronze Age ......."SubSaharans" in what is essentially the so called Near East. To openly admit this would open up more cans of worms since these areas are the 'cradles of civilization.' What I've found is that a lot of people have really bad cases of historical relativism when it comes to race, and how things have changed over time. 3,000 B.C is 5,000 years ago, and lot of people either forget that, or misunderstand just how much time that is. It's only been 2,000 years since the time of Jesus. That's a lot of time for the development of our current world, and people still look at me crazy when I suggest that North Africans weren't always European looking as they are now, or even that the first humans were black. I'd say for now we've got to focus on proving once and for all that Egypt is a black african civilization, then we can move on to those areas. Very interesting is how similar the excuses are when you talk about a people like the Sumerians, when compared to the Egyptians. "Black land?? That just means the soil was black, not the people." Egypt "Black headed people? That just means their hair, not their skin." Sumer
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Apr 5, 2019 7:01:01 GMT -5
@ Anansi, Thanks
quote "“The other big surprise,” Krause said, “was that we didn’t find MUCH Sub-Saharan African ancestry.”
Comparing of the results was done with modern Egyptians and Ethiopians, and the results showed that the ancient Egyptians were closely related to people who lived along the eastern Mediterranean coasts and that they also shared genetic material with residents of the Anatolian Peninsula at the time and Europe.
African genes were found in only 20 per cent of the material, and this was due to trade exchange.{xyyman comment - what is African genes?}
In their paper, the researchers acknowledged that “all our genetic data were obtained from a single site in Middle Egypt and may not be representative for all of ancient Egypt.” In the south of Egypt, the authors wrote, Sub-Saharan African influences may have been stronger.
The study has triggered anger among several Egyptian archaeologists who have questioned the results. Egyptologist Zahi Hawass described the studies as “hallucinations” and told Al-Ahram Weekly that they were not accurate for several reasons.
The mummies that were subjected to the DNA tests dated to the Graeco-Roman period when the mummification process was very poor, he said. They also belonged to people who came from Italy or to Greeks who lived in ancient Egypt and not to native ancient Egyptians.
“How can the ancient Egyptians be genetically from Europe,” Hawass asked, adding that when the ancient Egyptians were busy building their civilisation Europe did not exist in civilisational terms.
“There is no scientific or archaeological evidence that could support such results,” Hawass said, adding that the only discovery that scientists think could indicate the origin of the ancient Egyptians was the Naqad Necropolis discovered by archaeologist Flinders Petrie which houses a collection of tombs from the prehistoric period.
“The ancient Egyptians have Egyptian genes, which are not similar to African or Arab genes,” Hawass said.
He said that recent studies were not the only ones to be published about the genes and the origins of the ancient Egyptians. Thirty years ago, an African clergyman claimed that the ancient Egyptians were Africans because both the pharaohs Ramses II and Tutankhamun had commissioned wooden statues painted black, he said."
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Apr 5, 2019 13:49:23 GMT -5
The big problem? Abusir isnt all Egypt. Yet everybody pro or con keeps talking Egypt not Abusir. 3 random unidentifiable individuals from one city repping an entire nation thru its 3000 year long existence? Preposterous. Those bodyless heads have no known occupation or social rank other than they could afford mummification and interment at Abusir el-Meleq. Why Abusir el-Meleq in the first place? Because the Egy gov wouldn't permit sampling intact wholly identifiable mummies by foreigners. Control in whose hands being the issue. So Schuenemann sampled heads owned and held in Germany the last hundred years. That's why Abusir. The Amarna and Ramses mummy reports are no good, according to the Abusir authors. The Amarna/Ramses studies are on identifiable and complete mummies who were the big bosses of the 18th & 19th dynasties. Euro problem there being, STRs revealed African ethnic 'markers' pervasive in Pharaoh and the royalty class of mates. Even funny looking Yuya had majority African antecedence for his reported CODIS alleles. Without the Schuenemann & Krause delegitimizing the Pusch & Zink, we'd be left with a Levantine population base dominated by an Inner African ruling class.
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Apr 5, 2019 19:06:41 GMT -5
Quote: "Even funny looking Yuya had majority African antecedence for his reported CODIS alleles. Without the Schuenemann & Krause delegitimizing the Pusch & Zink, we'd be left with a Levantine population base dominated by an Inner African ruling class. " Loving it!!!!! But the problem is the 3 headless Abusir...had no identifiable CODIS STRs
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jhosx
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Post by jhosx on Apr 6, 2019 20:24:15 GMT -5
What's the best way to get our message out? All the data and statistics that prove our case. We know this stuff, but the problem is, a lot of people really don't. We may never get coverage from CNN or Nature.com, but it's a new age. The internet age. The truth will prevail. All it has to do is be presented. I'm thinking a Youtube channel with attractive and presentable visuals that can get the average everyday, unbiased person into this. Something like Overly Sarcastic Productions, or Extra Credits. All they need to see is how absurd it is that this is even an issue. We can get them to think about it. And if they choose to, they can look at some of our other stuff on the topic. They appear to be winning because they have more distributors. We just need to get the message out there.
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jhosx
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Post by jhosx on Apr 7, 2019 20:18:31 GMT -5
This is the kind of stuff we're up against.
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Post by asante on Apr 7, 2019 20:49:08 GMT -5
In those types of discussions those are strictly trolls. I've GIVEN IT to some of those trolls in the comment section of Worldstar on black history, and I've gotten a ton of "likes" on my "discuss" profile from the rebuttals that I give. Those white boys trolls on those types of comments sections will NEVER respond in any adequate way to a true intellectual ass whooping given to them. Hell I've even gotten a "I can't believe that you actually wrote all of that no one's going to read it" quite a few times. That being said that they are trolls, and it is simply not worth going all the way in on them like that. egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/2691/ancient-egyptian-mummy-genomes-debunked
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jhosx
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Post by jhosx on Apr 7, 2019 21:46:43 GMT -5
In those types of discussions those are strictly trolls. I've GIVEN IT to some of those trolls in the comment section of Worldstar on black history, and I've gotten a ton of "likes" on my "discuss" profile from the rebuttals that I give. Those white boys trolls on those types of comments sections will NEVER respond in any adequate way to a true intellectual ass whooping given to them. Hell I've even gotten a "I can't believe that you actually wrote all of that no one's going to read it" quite a few times. That being said that they are trolls, and it is simply not worth going all the way in on them like that. egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/2691/ancient-egyptian-mummy-genomes-debunkedI agree that it's really not worth engaging with them, but I really don't think they're trolling. A lot of these kids actually believe this, and they're legitmately racist. They're always a little frustration away from saying the n word and spouting out white supremacist views while acting like they have "SCIENCE" and "FACTS" on their side. They project their strong emotions onto us, when their entire side of the argument is trying to prove that the Ancient Egyptians left Africa until they weren't black so they could come back and build the pyramids, all because they can't fathom the thought that blacks built it all. Half these kids probably binge watch Ben Shapiro compilations on youtube and vastly overestimate their own intelligence. If they can't argue, they start 'we wuz' posting. It's one of the more toxic things to come from the meme and internet age, and this mentality is spreading like wildfire. EDIT: This also just goes to show that this study is ALL they have left. They cling to it like a bible.
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