|
Post by Supanova on Dec 4, 2020 13:30:15 GMT -5
I've been in contact with Yehia Z. Gad over the last month about the pending article on the ancestry of Tutankhamun and family. Dr. Gad offered to send me a copy when he received the official and final version, as he only had a gallery proof at the time. Dr. Gad kept his word and sent me a copy of the Gad et al. 2020 manuscript in pdf form a couple of days ago. I am also predicting a major Euro-centered shit storm, the likes not seen since the announcements of iGENEA in 2009 and Schuenemann et al. 2017. The article is a peer reviewed manuscript included in the Festschrift publication (a three volume book "Guardian of Ancient Egypt, Studies in Honor of Zahi Hawass"), published by Charles university, Prague in celebration of the career achievements of Dr Zahi Hawass. The academic publication comprises over 100 peer reviewed articles from a variety of scientists and archaeologists. Based on the anthropological, biological, historical, cultural and material evidence already on record, I find the results counterintuitive and irreconcilable. Since it is not possible to share a pdf on this platform, I snapshot the crux of the article, which surely will be the talk of the mainstream when it's released. Abstract Quote: "In this study, analysis of the mitochondrial and Y-chromosomal haplogroups was used to provide information about the phylogenetic groups of Tutankhamun’s family members, and their presence among the reported contemporary Egyptian population data. The mitochondrial and Y-chromosomal DNA analysis of Tutankhamun’s family confirms our previous data of the royal family pedigree, with multiple controls authenticating all results. The proposed sibling relationship between Tutankhamun’s parents, KV55 (Akhenaten) and KV35YL, is further supported. The royal lineage is composed of the Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b and the mitochondrial haplogroup K. Population genetics point to a common origin at ca. 14. 000–28. 000 years before present locating to the Near East". Concluding remarks Quote: "This study reconfirms and complements the previously published family pedigree of the King Tutankhamun (Ilawass et al 2010, 638 647). It also presents the plausible mitochondrial and Y-chromosomal signatures of the family members. The data suggest geographical and temporal matching of the origins of Y-chromosomal and the mitochondrial signatures in the family to possibly Near Eastern lineages, with time coverage believed to be between -14,500 and 28,400 YBP. A recent study by Schuenemann et al. (2017, 15694) has also shown the propensity of Near Eastern lineages among their ancient Egyptian sample coming from Faiyum, although these were from later ancient periods. A distinction between the geographical origins of the investigated late 18° Dynasty family and the succeeding 20 Dynasty pharaohs (Ramesses III and Unknown Man E/Pentawere) was also shown. The latter was estimated to be of African origin, not a Middle or Near Eastern one". "Due to its geographical location Egypt could have over time created a melting pot of various gene pools The genetic variation outside Africa reflects only a subset of the African gene pool (Underhill and Kivisild 2007, 539 564). Studies on today's Egyptian population samples have resulted in haplogroups that are predominantly Eurpean or west Eurasian (Stevanovitch ct al. 2003 23–39; Saumier et al. 2009, e97-0103; Elmadawy et al. 2013, 338-341; Fadhlucu-/id et al. 2013, e80293) It was also reported that the modern Egyptian haplogroups in a study were more closely associated with non-African populations than with the West Africans (Pagani et al. 2015, 986 991). This accords with our findings that the same trend was indicated through the analysis of 184 Dynasty family members". I'm befuddled.. any thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by imhotep06 on Dec 4, 2020 17:01:09 GMT -5
Can you share the actual paper? Even privately if you don't want to publicaly? I want to get Dr. Keita's opinion as I know he'll be interested. I believe he argues for an African origin of R1b if I remember correctly.
|
|
|
Post by Supanova on Dec 5, 2020 8:12:19 GMT -5
I have no problem sharing the manuscript publicly at all. If there was a way, I would've preferred to post it. However, I am unaware of how to go about sharing a pdf document on this platform, if at all possible.
I can certainly send it privately to anyone who requests a copy.
|
|
|
Post by Supanova on Dec 5, 2020 8:32:40 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Dec 5, 2020 14:32:25 GMT -5
aonno Unspecified R1b? Yes. Which precise R1b? Still unknown, I'd wager. No Y-SNP test was done to ratify the STR derivation. M343 is the root. Goto @ and click TOTAL R1b for rank by %. 'Central Sahel' (actually Central-West Africa) has more R1b than any folk other than central north northwest Euros, including other Euos. Gad never even mentions African R-V88 Author has bias prejudicing his interpretation. I feel let down but not surprised. You might want to enquire why R-V88 was left out of the discussion altogether but if you do please leave my name out OK. He might not appreciate before gen-pop pub stealth stealing the book's thunder, by Jove! Autosomes indicate Amenhotep III was northeast African more than anything. No markers indicate an Eurasian origin or predominance per my sources. BTW FGA 23 in S Afr and Palestine shows in nrY E-M58 touted as a Bantu haplogroup. I need to revise the chart for the new format I developed to show the MiniFiler STaRs. As for Yuya, no Armarna pharaohs have his nrY. Their MSY comes from Amenhotep III. Yuya was no royal. I think he was Egyptian of mixed maryannu chariot caste descent. See @Science has no problem updating itself when something previously unknown demands it. Just the past 24 hours I was told and it was confirmed aDNA R-V88,V2790 --the root-- in an ~11,000 year old male found in today's Serbia Herzegovina near Bulgaria. Until an older African guy is found with R-V88 it's safe to say for now that R-V88 entered the continent ultimately from Ligurian Sea men though the details remain fuzzy. An authentic Africana is my goal not defending ego attached conclusions or promoting Afrika uber alles cultural nationalisms.
|
|
|
Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Dec 6, 2020 5:29:08 GMT -5
That update
|
|
|
Post by imhotep06 on Dec 7, 2020 4:07:19 GMT -5
Greetings Supernova. Thank you very much for the share. I have downloaded it and just forwarded it to Dr. S.O.Y. Keita and Dr. Jean-Phillipe Gourdine for analysis. Note that Dr. Keita is feeling sick at the moment. So he may take a minute to respond.
|
|
|
Post by zarahan on Dec 12, 2020 15:46:12 GMT -5
I've been in contact with Yehia Z. Gad over the last month about the pending article on the ancestry of Tutankhamun and family. Dr. Gad offered to send me a copy when he received the official and final version, as he only had a gallery proof at the time. View AttachmentDr. Gad kept his word and sent me a copy of the Gad et al. 2020 manuscript in pdf form a couple of days ago. I am also predicting a major Euro-centered shit storm, the likes not seen since the announcements of iGENEA in 2009 and Schuenemann et al. 2017. The article is a peer reviewed manuscript included in the Festschrift publication (a three volume book "Guardian of Ancient Egypt, Studies in Honor of Zahi Hawass"), published by Charles university, Prague in celebration of the career achievements of Dr Zahi Hawass. The academic publication comprises over 100 peer reviewed articles from a variety of scientists and archaeologists. Based on the anthropological, biological, historical, cultural and material evidence already on record, I find the results counterintuitive and irreconcilable. Since it is not possible to share a pdf on this platform, I snapshot the crux of the article, which surely will be the talk of the mainstream when it's released. View AttachmentAbstract Quote: "In this study, analysis of the mitochondrial and Y-chromosomal haplogroups was used to provide information about the phylogenetic groups of Tutankhamun’s family members, and their presence among the reported contemporary Egyptian population data. The mitochondrial and Y-chromosomal DNA analysis of Tutankhamun’s family confirms our previous data of the royal family pedigree, with multiple controls authenticating all results. The proposed sibling relationship between Tutankhamun’s parents, KV55 (Akhenaten) and KV35YL, is further supported. The royal lineage is composed of the Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b and the mitochondrial haplogroup K. Population genetics point to a common origin at ca. 14. 000–28. 000 years before present locating to the Near East". View AttachmentConcluding remarks Quote: "This study reconfirms and complements the previously published family pedigree of the King Tutankhamun (Ilawass et al 2010, 638 647). It also presents the plausible mitochondrial and Y-chromosomal signatures of the family members. The data suggest geographical and temporal matching of the origins of Y-chromosomal and the mitochondrial signatures in the family to possibly Near Eastern lineages, with time coverage believed to be between -14,500 and 28,400 YBP. A recent study by Schuenemann et al. (2017, 15694) has also shown the propensity of Near Eastern lineages among their ancient Egyptian sample coming from Faiyum, although these were from later ancient periods. A distinction between the geographical origins of the investigated late 18° Dynasty family and the succeeding 20 Dynasty pharaohs (Ramesses III and Unknown Man E/Pentawere) was also shown. The latter was estimated to be of African origin, not a Middle or Near Eastern one". "Due to its geographical location Egypt could have over time created a melting pot of various gene pools The genetic variation outside Africa reflects only a subset of the African gene pool (Underhill and Kivisild 2007, 539 564). Studies on today's Egyptian population samples have resulted in haplogroups that are predominantly Eurpean or west Eurasian (Stevanovitch ct al. 2003 23–39; Saumier et al. 2009, e97-0103; Elmadawy et al. 2013, 338-341; Fadhlucu-/id et al. 2013, e80293) It was also reported that the modern Egyptian haplogroups in a study were more closely associated with non-African populations than with the West Africans (Pagani et al. 2015, 986 991). This accords with our findings that the same trend was indicated through the analysis of 184 Dynasty family members". I'm befuddled.. any thoughts? A distinction between the geographical origins of the investigated late 18° Dynasty family and the succeeding 20 Dynasty pharaohs (Ramesses III and Unknown Man E/Pentawere) was also shown. The latter was estimated to be of African origin, not a Middle or Near Eastern one".
"Due to its geographical location Egypt could have over time created a melting pot of various gene pools The genetic variation outside Africa reflects only a subset of the African gene pool (Underhill and Kivisild 2007, 539 564). Studies on today's Egyptian population samples have resulted in haplogroups that are predominantly Eurpean or west Eurasian (Stevanovitch ct al. 2003 23–39; Saumier et al. 2009, e97-0103; Elmadawy et al. 2013, 338-341; Fadhlucu-/id et al. 2013, e80293) It was also reported that the modern Egyptian haplogroups in a study were more closely associated with non-African populations than with the West Africans (Pagani et al. 2015, 986 991). This accords with our findings that the same trend was indicated through the analysis of 184 Dynasty family members".
I'm befuddled.. any thoughts?
Haven't read the full study yet, but so far I don't see anything earth-shattering. If anything they are running the same old approaches of the past. Prelim take: 1) There is a strawman aspect to some of their spiel. They talk up geographical origins as something mutually exclusive- i.e. Rameses3 and Unknown Man E/Pentawere being of "African origin." But if they and their ancestors were born in Egypt, they are of "African origin" - for, gasp, Egypt is in Africa- to begin with, at that level. 2) We saw several years back the DNA Tribes analyses that showed the presence of African DNA elements from further south. This does not, and never meant that the royal mummies analyzed came directly from South Africa or the Great Lakes, just that ancestral elements linked the royals to certain dna patterns sometimes found in these southerly regions. The DNATribes analysis explicitly said that their findings do not indicate " exclusively African ancestry." So no credible student of the info is going around claiming that say, Tut was "exclusively" African, or came direct from the Great Lakes etc. etc. Various comparisons against something never claimed by credible people smells of a strawman setup.. 3) Some aspects of the old "comparison against the stereotypical true negro" game can be invoked, just like Schuemann and others in the past have often made comparisons to distant West Africans, the "true negro" stand-ins to be juxtaposed against. But the people most closely related to & with the Egyptians in Africa are the Africans relatively NEAR to Egypt- Nubians, Somalians, and others in NE/E Africa. All too often though, some European and Arabist scholars skip over these peoples to cherry-pick distant Central "Congo" or West Africans- the "true negroes," to compare against. Its an old game many have been running for decades. If they are not running the game as far as external comparisons, they are running the game with internal sampling, such as sampling from the far north, a region with more migration, and mixes and using the north as "representative" of all Egypt. Hammer in the 1990s used DNA far north, and Barry Kemp points out that cranial analyses drew samples from cemeteries of the far north near the Mediterranean to be "representative", excluding the historic south. 4) They reference Pagani 2015 re modern Egyptians having more Egyptian ancestry, and tout that their findings confirm this. But this is nothing new or earth-shattering. We all know modern Egyptians, and Late Period Egyptians have more non-African ancestry. This is news? Hell we have analyses decades old saying this. Pagani did note however that when the recent "Eurasian" accretions are masked out, the Egyptians cluster more with Africans. 5) Re R1b- some have been talking up R1b and Tut for over a decade. The study above "proposes" that Tut was R1b. OK, maybe, R1b could be ONE of the elements in the mix. Other elements including the African ones are present as well. Just as DNATribes notes that their profile was not EXCLUSIVELY African, so too on the flip side it should be noted that Tut et al are not EXCLUSIVELY "Eurasian" either. Then their are scholarly arguments re Keita above for R1b being of African origin to add ti the mix as well.
|
|
|
Post by samuel on Jan 3, 2021 16:43:18 GMT -5
Man. I wish black Americans cared more about this, but they do not. They care more about "da money and da powa" than they do their own heritage. I would be pissed if I were black and all this nonsense was being spewed. Obviously black Americans are not related to Ancient Egyptians, but of any people on Earth today they would have resembled the most black Americans. Why are they not doing their own dna studies on these mummies? Tutankhamun being white is the most ridiculous shit I've ever heard. But people believe the news and what they're told rather than their own research.
|
|
|
Post by samuel on Jan 3, 2021 17:49:08 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by anansi on Jan 4, 2021 10:15:26 GMT -5
Man. I wish black Americans cared more about this, but they do not. They care more about "da money and da powa" than they do their own heritage. I would be pissed if I were black and all this nonsense was being spewed. Obviously black Americans are not related to Ancient Egyptians, but of any people on Earth today they would have resembled the most black Americans. Why are they not doing their own dna studies on these mummies? Tutankhamun being white is the most ridiculous shit I've ever heard. But people believe the news and what they're told rather than their own research. Bruh most AAs like most Euro-Americans don't care about any of this stuff outside of a core with interest on the subject, and calm down, R1b ?? doo what?? say what?? Yes some may wanna run with Cacacsoid thingy but looky here This is what R1b folks looked like in Africa, can't find Xyyman but even if true ,guess what?? there were no White ppl in existence back when these back migrants made their trip. Not only that, but your boy Tut carried Benin HBS And finally if they proved 100% that King Tut was a recently arrived back packing tourist from Albania , again so what, I hope none of us here are race purists in a scientific sense, in a sociopolitical sense U do U..cuz anything outside of that, you will be disappointed.
|
|
|
Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Feb 5, 2021 10:16:16 GMT -5
@ SupaNova You might wanna check this www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=010390Leaving it up to you if you wanna hip them to your thread here. I've been in contact with Yehia Z. Gad over the last month about the pending article on the ancestry of Tutankhamun and family. Dr. Gad offered to send me a copy when he received the official and final version, as he only had a gallery proof at the time. Dr. Gad kept his word and sent me a copy of the Gad et al. 2020 manuscript in pdf form a couple of days ago. I am also predicting a major Euro-centered shit storm, the likes not seen since the announcements of iGENEA in 2009 and Schuenemann et al. 2017. The article is a peer reviewed manuscript included in the Festschrift publication (a three volume book "Guardian of Ancient Egypt, Studies in Honor of Zahi Hawass"), published by Charles university, Prague in celebration of the career achievements of Dr Zahi Hawass. The academic publication comprises over 100 peer reviewed articles from a variety of scientists and archaeologists. Based on the anthropological, biological, historical, cultural and material evidence already on record, I find the results counterintuitive and irreconcilable. Since it is not possible to share a pdf on this platform, I snapshot the crux of the article, which surely will be the talk of the mainstream when it's released. Abstract Quote: "In this study, analysis of the mitochondrial and Y-chromosomal haplogroups was used to provide information about the phylogenetic groups of Tutankhamun’s family members, and their presence among the reported contemporary Egyptian population data. The mitochondrial and Y-chromosomal DNA analysis of Tutankhamun’s family confirms our previous data of the royal family pedigree, with multiple controls authenticating all results. The proposed sibling relationship between Tutankhamun’s parents, KV55 (Akhenaten) and KV35YL, is further supported. The royal lineage is composed of the Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b and the mitochondrial haplogroup K. Population genetics point to a common origin at ca. 14. 000–28. 000 years before present locating to the Near East". Concluding remarks Quote: "This study reconfirms and complements the previously published family pedigree of the King Tutankhamun (Ilawass et al 2010, 638 647). It also presents the plausible mitochondrial and Y-chromosomal signatures of the family members. The data suggest geographical and temporal matching of the origins of Y-chromosomal and the mitochondrial signatures in the family to possibly Near Eastern lineages, with time coverage believed to be between -14,500 and 28,400 YBP. A recent study by Schuenemann et al. (2017, 15694) has also shown the propensity of Near Eastern lineages among their ancient Egyptian sample coming from Faiyum, although these were from later ancient periods. A distinction between the geographical origins of the investigated late 18° Dynasty family and the succeeding 20 Dynasty pharaohs (Ramesses III and Unknown Man E/Pentawere) was also shown. The latter was estimated to be of African origin, not a Middle or Near Eastern one". "Due to its geographical location Egypt could have over time created a melting pot of various gene pools The genetic variation outside Africa reflects only a subset of the African gene pool (Underhill and Kivisild 2007, 539 564). Studies on today's Egyptian population samples have resulted in haplogroups that are predominantly Eurpean or west Eurasian (Stevanovitch ct al. 2003 23–39; Saumier et al. 2009, e97-0103; Elmadawy et al. 2013, 338-341; Fadhlucu-/id et al. 2013, e80293) It was also reported that the modern Egyptian haplogroups in a study were more closely associated with non-African populations than with the West Africans (Pagani et al. 2015, 986 991). This accords with our findings that the same trend was indicated through the analysis of 184 Dynasty family members". I'm befuddled.. any thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by zarahan on Feb 13, 2021 14:11:49 GMT -5
quick summary + Gad on sickle-cell etc in another:
|
|
|
Post by asante on Feb 15, 2021 13:56:20 GMT -5
quick summary + Gad on sickle-cell etc in another: I definitely disagree with the highlighted Rosa et.al statement that implies that due to current distribution that the M2 lineage originated in West Africa. There is entirely too much evidence at this point indicating a Northeastern African origin for the M2-lineage and it's main carriers the "Niger-Congo" speakers. Furthermore sickle cell (another characteristic of Niger-Congo speakers) did not originate in West Africa, but rather the Sudan (Northeast Africa) about 5,000 BC We then used a combination of forward time simulation, phylogenetic network analysis, and coalescent analysis to infer a single origin of the sickle allele approximately 7,300 years ago, during the Holocene Wet Phase or Green Sahara...the presence of the Benin haplotype in western Arabia is consistent with an African origin and an overland migration route through northeast Africa
www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(18)30048-X
Overall good citation though.
|
|
|
Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Feb 16, 2021 10:13:04 GMT -5
Gotta play right
Article| Volume 102, ISSUE 4, P547-556, April 05, 2018
Whole-Genome-Sequence-Based Haplotypes Reveal Single Origin of the Sickle Allele during the Holocene Wet Phase
Daniel Shriner Charles N. Rotimi
Open AccessPublished:March 08, 2018DOI:https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ajhg.2018.02.003
Our results provide some suggestions as to where the sickle mutation might have originated. Descendants of the Y chromosome haplogroup E1b1a-V38 migrated across the Sahara from east to west,49 possibly around 19,000 years ago.50 E1b1a1-M2 most likely did not originate in eastern or northeastern Africa, but where it originated in either western or central Africa is unclear.49 Accordingly, the sickle mutation most likely did not occur in eastern or northeastern Africa. Our results indicate that the origin of the sickle mutation was in the middle of the Holocene Wet Phase, or Neolithic Subpluvial, which lasted from ∼7,500–7,000 BC to ∼3,500–3,000 BC. This time was the most recent of the Green Sahara periods, during which the Sahara experienced wet and rainy conditions.51 Our results thus support the Green Sahara as a possible place of origin of the sickle mutation. An alternative hypothesis is that the sickle allele arose in west-central Africa,13, 52 possibly in the northwestern portion of the equatorial rainforest.
Our results also provide some suggestions as to where the three clusters might have originated. Two splits occurred early in the original βS-carrying population. The first split defined one cluster containing HAP1 and accounting for the Cameroon and CAR haplotypes. It is plausible that HAP1 was carried from an area in or around present-day Cameroon to the area that is presently the CAR, as well as to areas east and south, as part of the Bantu expansions. However, the Bantu expansions did not extend west and north. The second split subsequently separated the clusters containing HAP16 and HAP20, the modal haplotypes accounting for the Benin and Senegal haplotypes, respectively. HAP16 and HAP20 shared one derived mutation, consistent with an early split. Furthermore, given the subsequent accumulation of derived mutations not shared between HAP16 and HAP20, effectively no gene flow occurred between these two descendant populations, consistent with geographic separation. We therefore hypothesize that the common ancestor of these two clusters existed north of Cameroon among non-Bantu-speaking peoples in or around present-day Nigeria. From this common ancestral population, a group of migrants separated and traveled west and north to the area around present-day Senegal and the Gambia. These migrants could have taken a coastal or an inland route. The finding that the Senegal haplotype was the predominant haplotype in the sample of Mende from Sierra Leone is consistent with a coastal route. We do not have data to investigate an inland route, but we note that the frequency of the sickle allele is higher along the coast than inland.53
13. Mears J.G. Lachman H.M. Cabannes R. Amegnizin K.P. Labie D. Nagel R.L. Sickle gene. Its origin and diffusion from West Africa. J. Clin. Invest. 1981; 68: 606-610
49. Trombetta B. D’Atanasio E. Massaia A. Ippoliti M. Coppa A. Candilio F. Coia V. Russo G. Dugoujon J.-M. Moral P. et al. Phylogeographic refinement and large scale genotyping of human Y chromosome haplogroup E provide new insights into the dispersal of early pastoralists in the African continent. Genome Biol. Evol. 2015; 7: 1940-1950
50. Mallick S. Li H. Lipson M. Mathieson I. Gymrek M. Racimo F. Zhao M. Chennagiri N. Nordenfelt S. Tandon A. et al. The Simons Genome Diversity Project: 300 genomes from 142 diverse populations. Nature. 2016; 538: 201-206
51. Castañeda I.S. Mulitza S. Schefuss E. Lopes dos Santos R.A. Sinninghe Damsté J.S. Schouten S. Wet phases in the Sahara/Sahel region and human migration patterns in North Africa. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA. 2009; 106: 20159-20163
52. Wainscoat J.S. The origin of mutant β-globin genes in human populations. Acta Haematol. 1987; 78: 154-158
53. Piel F.B. Patil A.P. Howes R.E. Nyangiri O.A. Gething P.W. Williams T.N. Weatherall D.J. Hay S.I. Global distribution of the sickle cell gene and geographical confirmation of the malaria hypothesis. Nat. Commun. 2010; 1: 104
=-=
Sudan can be a slippery term, especially The Sudan. It can and has meant the entire Sahel coast-to-coast and at the same time the countries Sudan and South Sudan. The Lake Tchad region is in the central Sudan aka the northern parts of west-central Africa.
WAM TNA origins of E-M2 proliferation and dispersal was seen in D'Atanasio2018 data. That Sickle Cell may also have arose in those times nearby then Megalake Chad or to its south seems intuitive and supported by the data.
WAM = West African Monsoon TNA = Tropical North Africa; roughly 17° - 29° north latitude
|
|