Post by djoser-xyyman on Jun 8, 2010 12:49:23 GMT -5
Hey Doc. Insightful post . . .as usual. we can take this to another thread(new) but help me out with a few things.
1. I said this about 2ya. Understanding who Fayoum painting depict will clarify who the Greek were.
2. There seem to be contention between Eurocentric as to whether the Fayoum represents Greek colonist OR mixed Greek/Egyptian.
Your post re-enforces that belief.
Quote:
"While commonly believed to represent Greek settlers in Egypt, the Faiyum portraits
. . . "
"However, Kemp, from an inference of cranio-facial traits and limb proportions of numerous skeletal remains, postulated much immigration into the more northern parts of Egypt, indicative of the population "tending towards a greater similarity with European populations than had been the case earlier""
"
The following posts by me, mention the Fayum portaits and the fact that these people were of both Egyptian and Greeco-Roman descent.
To further my point, it was Arabs who described indigenous Lower Egyptians as "Half-Caste Ethiopians", therefore it's even more likely that there was significant admixture during the Greeco-Roman era which spanned more then a century. The Fayum mummy portraits are a great example, the images depict Lower Egyptians with "documented" Greek ancestry.
The people depicted possess features seen among modern Lower Egyptians, in regard to that the average Fayum mummy portrait is no different then what we see in Lower Egypt today. They possess obvious AFRICAN and NON-AFRICAN features, likely due to the fact that they are of both indigenous Egyptian and Greeco descent. Arsinoe IV of Egypt comes to mind, I remember reading a quote from an article which stated that she physically resembled modern Egyptians, in that she possessed both AFRICAN and NON-AFRICAN features, in this case Southwest Asian, i.e. Greek, and African, i.e. indigenous Egyptian, admixture. Basically a MULATTO population.
"They usually depict a single person, showing the head, or head and upper chest, viewed frontally. In terms of artistic tradition, the images clearly derive more from Graeco-Roman traditions than Egyptian ones. The population of the Faiyum area was greatly enhanced by a wave of Greek immigrants during the Ptolemaic period, initially by veteran soldiers who settled in the area."
"Under Greco-Roman rule, Egypt hosted several Greek settlements, mostly concentrated in Alexandria, but also in a few other cities, where Greek settlers lived alongside some seven to ten million native Egyptians. Faiyum's earliest Greek inhabitants were soldier-veterans and cleruchs (elite military officials) who were settled by the Ptolemaic kings on reclaimed lands. Native Egyptians also came to settle in Faiyum from all over the country, notably the Nile Delta, Upper Egypt, Oxyrhynchus and Memphis, to undertake the labor involved in the land reclamation process, as attested by personal names, local cults and recovered papyri. It is estimated that as much as 30 percent of the population of Faiyum was Greek during the Ptolemaic period, with the rest being native Egyptians. By the Roman period, much of the "Greek" population of Faiyum was made-up of either Hellenized Egyptians or people of mixed Egyptian-Greek origins."
"
"While commonly believed to represent Greek settlers in Egypt, the Faiyum portraits instead reflect the complex synthesis of the predominant Egyptian culture and that of the elite Greek minority in the city. According to Walker, the early Ptolemaic Greek colonists married local women and adopted Egyptian religious beliefs, and by Roman times, their descendants were viewed as Egyptians by the Roman rulers, despite their own self-perception of being Greek. The dental morphology of the Roman-period Faiyum mummies was also compared with that of earlier Egyptian populations, and was found to be "much more closely akin" to that of ancient Egyptians than to Greeks or other European populations. However, Kemp, from an inference of cranio-facial traits and limb proportions of numerous skeletal remains, postulated much immigration into the more northern parts of Egypt, indicative of the population "tending towards a greater similarity with European populations than had been the case earlier"
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Fayum-35.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Fayum-07.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Fayum-34.jpg
/Hawara_MoS_1911.210.1.JPG" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/
/Hawara_MoS_1911.210.1.JPG
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Fayum-22.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Fayum-20.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Fayum-13.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Fayum-11.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/Fayum-01.jpg
Compare to reconstruction of Arsinoe IV of Egypt, who was of mixed Egyptian and Greek descent.
www.africanamericanculturalcenterpalmcoast.org/historyafrican/arsinoe.jpg
1. I said this about 2ya. Understanding who Fayoum painting depict will clarify who the Greek were.
2. There seem to be contention between Eurocentric as to whether the Fayoum represents Greek colonist OR mixed Greek/Egyptian.
Your post re-enforces that belief.
Quote:
"While commonly believed to represent Greek settlers in Egypt, the Faiyum portraits
. . . "
"However, Kemp, from an inference of cranio-facial traits and limb proportions of numerous skeletal remains, postulated much immigration into the more northern parts of Egypt, indicative of the population "tending towards a greater similarity with European populations than had been the case earlier""
"
To further my point, it was Arabs who described indigenous Lower Egyptians as "Half-Caste Ethiopians", therefore it's even more likely that there was significant admixture during the Greeco-Roman era which spanned more then a century. The Fayum mummy portraits are a great example, the images depict Lower Egyptians with "documented" Greek ancestry.
The people depicted possess features seen among modern Lower Egyptians, in regard to that the average Fayum mummy portrait is no different then what we see in Lower Egypt today. They possess obvious AFRICAN and NON-AFRICAN features, likely due to the fact that they are of both indigenous Egyptian and Greeco descent. Arsinoe IV of Egypt comes to mind, I remember reading a quote from an article which stated that she physically resembled modern Egyptians, in that she possessed both AFRICAN and NON-AFRICAN features, in this case Southwest Asian, i.e. Greek, and African, i.e. indigenous Egyptian, admixture. Basically a MULATTO population.
"They usually depict a single person, showing the head, or head and upper chest, viewed frontally. In terms of artistic tradition, the images clearly derive more from Graeco-Roman traditions than Egyptian ones. The population of the Faiyum area was greatly enhanced by a wave of Greek immigrants during the Ptolemaic period, initially by veteran soldiers who settled in the area."
"Under Greco-Roman rule, Egypt hosted several Greek settlements, mostly concentrated in Alexandria, but also in a few other cities, where Greek settlers lived alongside some seven to ten million native Egyptians. Faiyum's earliest Greek inhabitants were soldier-veterans and cleruchs (elite military officials) who were settled by the Ptolemaic kings on reclaimed lands. Native Egyptians also came to settle in Faiyum from all over the country, notably the Nile Delta, Upper Egypt, Oxyrhynchus and Memphis, to undertake the labor involved in the land reclamation process, as attested by personal names, local cults and recovered papyri. It is estimated that as much as 30 percent of the population of Faiyum was Greek during the Ptolemaic period, with the rest being native Egyptians. By the Roman period, much of the "Greek" population of Faiyum was made-up of either Hellenized Egyptians or people of mixed Egyptian-Greek origins."
"
"While commonly believed to represent Greek settlers in Egypt, the Faiyum portraits instead reflect the complex synthesis of the predominant Egyptian culture and that of the elite Greek minority in the city. According to Walker, the early Ptolemaic Greek colonists married local women and adopted Egyptian religious beliefs, and by Roman times, their descendants were viewed as Egyptians by the Roman rulers, despite their own self-perception of being Greek. The dental morphology of the Roman-period Faiyum mummies was also compared with that of earlier Egyptian populations, and was found to be "much more closely akin" to that of ancient Egyptians than to Greeks or other European populations. However, Kemp, from an inference of cranio-facial traits and limb proportions of numerous skeletal remains, postulated much immigration into the more northern parts of Egypt, indicative of the population "tending towards a greater similarity with European populations than had been the case earlier"
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Fayum-35.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Fayum-07.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Fayum-34.jpg
/Hawara_MoS_1911.210.1.JPG" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/
/Hawara_MoS_1911.210.1.JPGupload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Fayum-22.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Fayum-20.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Fayum-13.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Fayum-11.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/Fayum-01.jpg
Compare to reconstruction of Arsinoe IV of Egypt, who was of mixed Egyptian and Greek descent.
www.africanamericanculturalcenterpalmcoast.org/historyafrican/arsinoe.jpg
