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Post by sttigray on Apr 2, 2010 17:11:08 GMT -5
Many of the moors were drawn from interior Africa. However, that does not mean Nergoes were the majority. The moors were mainly Berbers and Arabs. Are youreading your own posts? there is a majr contradiction above and I will not be so rude as to point it out, but I will say that in your haste to refute my imagined position, you are only bolstering it. I have read some reports that they were from Ethiopia or even Senegal, and others stating that many were from Upper Egypt. While I know that all were not Black, I am also interested in the origin of the non-black moors as well
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Post by sttigray on Apr 2, 2010 17:04:03 GMT -5
@ Truth
Of course the movement is Islamic, you are the only one contending the matter, but Islamic does not necessarily equate Arabic, like Christian does not equate White. I think that may be your confusion.
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Post by sttigray on Apr 2, 2010 17:02:13 GMT -5
Here are some other eyewitness reports of the Moors if you like, the evidence speaks for itself.
11th century – Nasr i Khusrau, an Iranian ruler his Description of the Masmuda soldiers of the Fatimid dynasty as “black Africans”. See Yaacov Lev, “Army, Regime and Society in Fatimid Egypt, 358-487/968-1094″, International Journal of Middle Eastern Studies, 19.3 (1987) p. 342.
I also know that many people were pressed into service, and as you stated it was not just Black Africans, but also many other types of people as well, My contention is that it seems, from eyewitness accounts as well as historical accounts that the soldiers as well as their leadership comprised of a majority African contingent.
“One of them, with wooly hair, like a Moor, seems to be the son of Santra, the cook. The second, with a flat nose and thick lips, is the image of Pannicus, the wrestler . . . of the two daughters, one is black . . . and belongs to Crotus, the flute player.”
- Martial, VI, 39.
As I said it is wise to note that originally Moor was a term used to describe Black Africans in general. I dont mean to lecture I actually came here to learn, but you seem to take the offensive when this should be just a discussion. So I am forced on the defensive
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Post by sttigray on Apr 2, 2010 16:44:23 GMT -5
@ Truth In reference to some of your points 1. Wikipedia? 2. While dark is relative, they are usually described as pitch black, and a medieval woodcut is not at all accurate in describing anyone. If you like I could find wood cuts and statues depicting a black ceasar, but you and I know better. At least I hope. 3. I'm not much interested in Afrocentric reasoning. 4. Who is speaking of the origin of Islam, I speak of the Moors as tenants of the religion, not developers. 5. Berbers is not necessarily a race but a language, and to compare todays Berbers with Antiquities Berbers is as asinine as comparing todays American, with antiquities Native American. 6. Please only respond if you have some actual points on the subj matter, not Islam, Not Muslims, not Arabs, just Moors. 7. It would be wise to note that Moor generally described Black individuals. I.E. Negro, Blacks, etc etc
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Post by sttigray on Apr 2, 2010 14:11:56 GMT -5
I have read some reports that they were from Ethiopia or even Senegal, and others stating that many were from Upper Egypt. While I know that all were not Black, I am also interested in the origin of the non-black moors as well
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Post by sttigray on Apr 2, 2010 14:09:46 GMT -5
"All the Moorish soldiers were dressed in silk and black wool that had been forcibly acquired their faces were like pitch and the most handsome of them was like a cooking pan". Alfonso X King of Spain 13th century description of the Moors in Spain
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Post by sttigray on Apr 2, 2010 14:06:06 GMT -5
While I know that the Moors gave way to the Arabs over time, your depiction is contrary to personal eye witness depictions of them. This is a subject that I am learning about, and I am quite secure in my races history thus far I have no need to appropriate contrary to what we have. But I am fuzzy on some matters and I can find even your information enlightening. But I would love to stick with the facts, I find the securing of a cultures identity by artifacts alone, less than accurate. You can find Romans in Ebony if you like, but that does not change their non African nature.
This is a sample of eye witness descriptions of the Moors. What do you make of it. "The Moors were a people composed of dark-skinned tribes who had gained domination over all of North Africa after the decline of the Vandals who had gained control of the region briefly following the fall of Rome". Procopius 6th Century, Byzantium
the Moorish army was 50,000 strong and led by Marganice, Emperor of Ethiopia and Carthage. Their most valiant figure is described as Abisme (probably a derivative of, Abyssinian), who (verse 126) is described as black as melted pitch. In this epic, the Moors are called Sarrazins, in English, Saracens. Chanson of Roland 13th century
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Post by sttigray on Apr 2, 2010 10:11:51 GMT -5
With the Identity of Egypt being a bygone conclusion, who were the Moors. I am asking this on a purely academic level, and I have many pictures depicting the Moors as Black. I also think that while the Moors were mostly Black, I still am curious to what populations that they originated from. Please approach this from an objective viewpoint, keep the racism both subtle and overt out of the discussion. Attachments:
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Post by sttigray on Apr 2, 2010 10:01:35 GMT -5
You do not know what is being taught at Chinese universities or is being discussed amongst Chinese scholars.. Are you out of your ever lovin' mind 'potnah'? I associate with foreign Chinese students here at the college. They are very much indoctrinated with the Chinese curricula. Of all people, they would be the ones to know. I have presented this innovative Afrocentric stuff to them just to see their reaction, as well as, to put them on notice of what is being disseminated in African American circles. They are not at all pleased. You see, Chinese are aware (and have been for some yrs now) of African Americans and their social issues and gripes; claiming to be AE. Chinese could care less but now they do, thanks to people like you. By my informing them, and specifically naming names like, Dr. Winters, they now view Afrocentrists (unfortunately this resentment for, has spilled outside Afrocentrism and on to mainstream Blacks) as a pirana people, who prey on the historical accomplishments of others. So you see, if you run into a Chinese who acts hostile towards you for no apparent reason, just know my informing non-whites of your activity partly contributed to this. My advice to you, stop buying buy chicken wings fried rice from them. It never had any SIGNIFICANT population. This is a Clyde Winters innovation and weak polemic. Showing an image of a token few "Blacks" does NOT constitute significance. Actually, it constitutes insignificance. Where is this significant population today? Oh let me guess, the same thing that happened to all them other places where it is claimed Blacks were significant in population and were their antecedents; they just miraculously DISAPPEARED. Dude, come on. If "Black" aint a continental African, then what the hell is it?! Stop playing these semantic games! Who are you kidding?! "Black" is the trojan horse Afrocentrists use to anchor themselves on to non-white historical and cultural shores. Nah dude, what you met were dark skinned japs. Don't play yourself. Those are not "Black" people. The'yre dark skinned Japanese, no biggie. Dude, those pix derive from the trans-Saharan slave period. Give me a damn break! At the time, many muslims travelled to China to sell Negro slaves. How do you know, that "Black" man is not a muslim? LOL the atypical inferiority complex. Sad
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Post by sttigray on Apr 2, 2010 9:59:12 GMT -5
When it comes to AE there is no proof that AE was not a black African civilization, but when it comes to China, S. America and Native America, I feel that Afrocentrism maligns itself by grabbing for too much, while I agree that all humanity at one point was Black at one time, it is still a very poor move. One thing that is not realized is that we also have a PR campaign to wage, in view of Egypt we have won that war , only the most rabid racist refutes AE's origins, but we endanger even that when we grasp in a careless manner. I also think that yes we had a presence in those areas, but I have not seen enough proof to claim the lauds of their civilizations
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Post by sttigray on Apr 1, 2010 17:11:40 GMT -5
Awesome we need to all come here
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