Haplogroup J dissected - Search for it's origin

[djoser-xyyman]

Here is a nice piece of collaboration between Henn, Underhill etc. This crew is not as nutty as Achilli and Torroni. They are a bit more objective in their scientific research.

I decided to re-read it because of the Henn thread on ES. I noted some things I missed the first time around when I read it. That is why It is so important to re-read things as your understanding and knowledge grows. I started to question the origin of Jewry. Here are some excerpts from the paper.

As I stated many times before I am not as versed in the “documented’ pieces of work of the people in the region compared to their genetic makeup. Based upon what is written in the religious and historical books. Primarily because 1. I am now not really religious although I grew up Roman Catholic and 2. authors frankly…LIE ….or at least embellish the truth. Plus translation can be “subjective”

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The Emergence Of Y-Chromosome Haplogroup J1e Among Arabic-Speaking Populations(2010) - Jacques Chiaroni

Brenna M Henn4, Ornella Semino, Toomas Kivisild12 and Peter A Underhill2

The predominant categories of Y chromosomes in this region are varieties associated with haplogroup J-M304. This haplogroup essentially bifurcates into two main subclades, J1-M267(J1e) and J2-M172.1

Therefore, the J1e SNP information supports the previous inference that J1 chromosomes linked with DYS388¼13 repeats share a common ancestry.1 Network analysis of J1* chromosomes (Figure 2a) show a bifurcating substructure. One cluster is associated with DYS388¼15 and DYS390 423 repeats and the other cluster with DYS388¼13 repeats. The locale of highest J1* frequency occurs in the vicinity of eastern Anatolia (Figure 1c). Both J1* and J1e occur in Sudan and Ethiopia (Supplementary Table 1). Our data show that the YCAII 22-22 allele state is closely associated with J1e (Supplementary Table 2). Interestingly, in Ethiopia, all Cushitic Oromo and B29% of Semitic Amharic J1 chromosomes are J1*.

The high YSTR variance of J1e in Turks and Syrians (Table 1, Figure 1e) supports the inference of an origin of J1e in nearby eastern Anatolia. Moreover, the network analysis of J1e haplotypes (Figure 2b) shows that some of the populations with low diversity, such as Bedouins from Israel, Qatar, Sudan and UAE, are tightly clustered near high-frequency haplotypes suggesting founder effects with star burst expansion in the Arabian Desert.

A network analysis of J1e chromosomes (Figure 2b) also reflects situations of multiple founders. Although the haplogroup diversification within J1e remains incomplete, the somewhat rare J1e1-M368 provides an insight into the geographical origin of J1e.

Although the haplogroup relationships of YCAII alleles are unstable, nevertheless in the context of haplogroup J1, they are suggestive that the prevalent YCAII 22-22 variety may have evolved from a YCAII 19-22 ancestor.

The timing and geographical distribution of J1e is representative of a demic expansion of agriculturalists and herder–hunters from the Pre-Pottery Neolithic B to the late Neolithic era.24,26 The higher variances observed in Oman, Yemen and Ethiopia suggest either sampling variability and/or demographic complexity associated with multiple founders and multiple migrations. The expansion time associated with Yemen is somewhat older (7000 BCE) and may reflect a migration of herders into southern Arabia.27

Although J1e is one of the most frequent haplogroups in the region, haplogroup E-M123 also shows its highest frequency and haplotype diversity in regions of the Fertile Crescent, decreasing toward the Arabian Peninsula. 1,2,6 This co-distribution pattern of Y-chromosome haplogroups J1e and E-M123 resembles mtDNA haplogroups J1b and (PreHV)1 distributions that also display low levels of diversity despite their high frequency in Saudi Arabia.32,33

[history91]

journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fgene.2016.00141/full

[djoser-xyyman]

Thanks for the link. Now reading it. feedback soon.

[africurious]

Thanks for posting history91.

Another nice piece of work from Elhaik although it doesn't bring much new info unlike his other pieces. He does blow that jews are a race/share same ancestor crap to smitherines as usual.

These lines were interesting:

If Jewishness is genetic, i.e., there exist genomic mutations that segregate exclusively among all or most Jews, it would contradict over 3,000 years of historical, archeological, and linguistic findings. These findings portray the emergence of Jews from a heterogeneous assortment of Afro-Eurasian tribes who, for centuries and up to this day, have absorbed an enormous number of proselytes around the world.

This is the 1st I've heard a geneticist say that jews originated among african related peoples i.e. "Afro-Eurasians". It would help if he defined what he meant by that term regarding the ancients and who are the modern "Afro-Eurasian Jewish communities" that he said he tested as part of this paper. But, glad he's onboard with what some of us already saw from the evidence.

Moderators, the topic of this paper should be it's own thread or linked to a similar thread already on this forum since this paper and its topic has nothing to do with the origins of haplo J.

[history91]

Hit him up on Twitter. He usually responds.

[history91]

While reading a few blogs on genetics, l came across this Italian guy who said hg J did not originate in the Middle East. So I email him to get a better understanding. Here is his response...


Hi, you should look at the YFull tree (www.yfull.com). We clearly see there that hg. J arrived in Middle East recently, not more than 5000 years ago, whereas a sample of 13000 years ago has been found at Satsurblia in the Caucasus and also in Karelia. I am expecting that an old J1 is found also in Italy.
Clearly J1 and J2 are old in the Caucasus from where expanded to India and Western Europe, but Western Europe has old subclades, because J was very likely with hg. I amongst the Western European hunter-gatherers.
Thus Arab J1-s descend from an ancestor came from elsewhere about 5000 years ago and a second subclade only 3300 years ago, perhaps from Caucasus but I wouldn't discard Italy too.
All that dislikes the previous idea that hg. J was born in Middle East (don't consider the J* from Socotra, who are a remnant of old subclades that aren't the ancestors of our samples).
In fact hg. J hasn't been found in Middle East, in Natufians.
Of course some Jews may descend from some old haplogroup J, but I think that any case should be examined deeply and per se: I demonstrated that many subclades introgressed in the Jewish pool in Europe, above all when the MRCA is old not more than 1000 years.They say that that is due to a bottleneck, I think to an introgression.
But I study above all hg. R1b, and there is only one Jewish clade of R-M269* (beyond an R-L277 and surely old R-L584, but the Spyra cluster derived very likley from Yamnaya and Visigoths from Iberia), but emerged from a bottleneck of 19 SNPs. We don't know so far if they come from Old Jews. I never excluded that some Europen haplogroups may have entered the Jewish pool also before the diaspora through the Sea Peoples or others, but that should be demonstrated. Unfortunately Jewish aDNA cannot be tested for religious reasons, but we are waiting that the Philishtim discovered are, and it will be interesting to know their hgs.

[djoser-xyyman]

I am not sure they concluded correctly. But according to Data presented by Behar et al y-DNA is haplogroup E is necessary to be considered “Jewish” and L2*. The data presented in this study doesn’t included sex-related lineage DNA only SNP from the autosomal region. Also it would have been nice if they included “other” /gentiles ie non-Jewish population to compare with “Jewish”. IIRC in Behar’s paper the distant Jews such as those in India do carry trace amounts of African genetic material compared to their neighbors. Alhtough I don’t think these are Religious Jews but Neolithic Africans that entered India and lands further BEFORE the inception of true Judaism.
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Quote:
Conclusion:
It is not inconceivable that the microbiome, virome, bacteriome, or overall mycobiome, might be surveyed scrupulously to detect telltale hallmarks of “Jewishness.” However, until robust and reproducible evidence is forthcoming, in which a benchmark of the kind proposed here is employed, the alternative hypothesis must be upheld: ***Jewishness lies in the socialome**.

[history91]

Well you do know the ancient Judaeans/Israelites DNA has never been sequenced.

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digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss6/7/

Genetics and the Archaeology of Ancient Israel (2013)
Letter to the Editor
Aaron J. Brody, Badè Museum of Biblical Archaeology, Pacific School of Religion, Berkeley, CA
Roy J. King, Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Stanford

Abstract
This letter is a call for DNA testing on ancient skeletal materials from the southern Levant to begin a database of genetic information of the inhabitants of this crossroads region. In this region, during the Iron I period traditionally dated to circa 1200–1000 BCE, archaeologists and biblical historians view the earliest presence of a group that called itself Israel. They lived in villages in the varied hill countries of the region, contemporary with urban settlements in the coastal plains, inland valleys, and central hill country attributed to varied indigenous groups collectively called Canaanite. The remnants of Egyptian imperial presence in the region lasted until around 1150 BCE, postdating the arrival of an immigrant group from the Aegean called the Philistines circa 1175 BCE. The period that follows in the southern Levant is marked by the development of territorial states throughout the region, circa 1000–800 BCE. These patrimonial kingdoms, including the United Kingdom of Israel and the divided kingdoms of northern Israel and Judah, coalesced varied peoples under central leadership and newly founded administrative and religious bureaucracies. Ancient DNA testing will give us a further refined understanding of the individuals who peopled the region of the southern Levant throughout its varied archaeological and historic periods and provide scientific data that will support, refute, or nuance our sociohistoric reconstruction of ancient group identities. These social identities may or may not map onto genetic data, but without sampling of ancient DNA we may never know. A database of ancient DNA will also allow for comparisons with modern DNA samples collected throughout the greater region and the Mediterranean littoral, giving a more robust understanding of the long historical trajectories of regional human genetics and the genetics of varied ancestral groups of today’s Jewish populations and other cultural groups in the modern Middle East and Mediterranean.
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"Why the DNA of the ancient Judaeans has not being sequenced and settle the question of relatedness once and for all is a question that should be directed to Israeli archeologists. It is most unfortunate that the members of the general public have been mislead to believe (no doubt after paying a lot of money to DTC companies) that they are related to ancient figures without any shred of evidence."

khazardnaproject.wordpress.com/2016/05/05/responding-to-the-criticism-for-des-et-al-2016/

[history91]

How we solved the 1,000-year-old mystery of the Druze people’s origin – with a genetic sat nav

Previous research has also shown that Ashkenazic Jews and Druze are genetically closer to one another than Middle Eastern populations

theconversation.com/how-we-solved-the-1-000-year-old-mystery-of-the-druze-peoples-origin-with-a-genetic-sat-nav-68550

[djoser-xyyman]

YDNA J - May 2018

1. Thy focused ONLY on J2 not J1 when the key issue is J1(M267)
2. Expansion was during the Bronze age and not Neolithic for J2
3. Turks do NOT carry ANCESTRAL clades of J2 or J1 but the author did not mention WHO has these ancestral clades. Wink! Wink! Of course they are concentrating on the NORTHERN shores of the Mediterranean
4. Looking at the Supplemental Africans carry MORE ancestral clade types of J1 than the one Greek sample.

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A finely resolved phylogeny of Y chromosome Hg J illuminates the processes of Phoenician and Greek colonizations in the Mediterranean

Andrea Finocchio1, Beniamino Trombetta2, , Fulvio Cruciani 2,6 &


In order to improve the phylogeography of the male-specific genetic traces of Greek and Phoenician
colonizations on the Northern coasts of the Mediterranean, we performed a geographically structured
sampling of seven subclades of haplogroup J in Turkey, Greece and Italy. We resequenced 4.4 Mb of
Y-chromosome in 58 subjects, obtaining 1079 high quality variants. We did **NOT** find a preferential
coalescence of Turkish samples to **ANCESTRAL** nodes, contradicting the simplistic idea of a dispersal and
radiation of Hg J as a whole from the Middle East. Upon calibration with an ancient Hg J chromosome,
we confirmed that signs of Holocenic Hg J radiations are subtle and date mainly to the Bronze Age.
We pinpointed seven variants which could potentially unveil star clusters of sequences, indicative
of local expansions. By directly genotyping these variants in Hg J carriers and complementing with
published resequenced chromosomes (893 subjects), we provide strong temporal and distributional
evidence for markers of the Greek settlement of Magna Graecia (J2a-L397) and Phoenician migrations
(rs760148062). Our work generated a minimal but robust list of evolutionarily stable markers to
elucidate the demographic dynamics and spatial domains of male-mediated movements across and
around the Mediterranean, in the last 6,000 years.

[djoser-xyyman]

1. So the Africanized Bedouins are Phoenicians now ?
2. "previous landmark studies"...so the previous papers on YDNA J were lying? That doesn't surprise me.
3. I never knew this...but the formation of Ancient Greece was via the Islands off Africa and NOT from Mainland Greece. GTFOH!!!
4. Lioness I may have to correct my view on holistic J2. Seems like J2 like J1 is also of African origin but ONLY specific sub-clade of J2 is remnant of the Ottoman Turks in Arabia and North Africa.
5. J1 and J2 are NOT of Anatolian/Turkish origin


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Quotes:
"Within J1-M267 we obtained 32 carriers of the derived allele at rs751613702 (branch 18). They turned out to be sampled at locations (Fig. 2A) as distant as Tuscany (Italy) and Pakistan. Their centroid was significantly shifted to the East as compared to the carriers of the parental lineage (J1-M267). Moreover, the home range of derived alleles was entirely within that of parental lineage, with shorter pairwise distances
Further within the same clade, we assayed also rs760148062 (branch 17). We found 14 carriers of the derived allele (Fig. 2A). In this case the distances separating the carriers of the derived allele and their home range denote movements over wider distances than those of the carriers of the ancestral allele (p < 1E-8). In fact 47% (8/17) of the ancestral alleles were confined in the Israeli Bedouins. This difference in migratory history is also witnessed by STRs (Fig. 2A). The large cluster of J1-M267 immediately ancestral to rs751613702 and enriched in Middle Easterners, corresponded to the 14-23-10-11-12 motif at DYS19-390-391-392-393, which matches the haplotypes PCS2+ and PCS4+ providing a Phoenician Colonization Signal. Subjects derived at rs751613702 but ancestral


and pressure for range expansion, due to the Agricultural revolution in the Fertile Crescent. Second, within each subclade, lineages currently sampled in Turkey do ***not *** show up as preferentially ancestral. Both findings are replicated and reinforced by examining the previous landmark studies. Our Turkish samples do **not** coalesce preferentially to ancestral nodes when mapped onto these studies’ trees.Additional relevant information on the entire Hg J comes from the discontinuous distribution of J2b-M12. The northern fringe of our sample is enriched in the J2b-M241 subclade, which reappears in the gulf of Bengal, with low frequencies in the intervening Iraq and Iran . No J2b-M12 carriers were found among 35 modern Lebanese, as contrasted to one of two ancient specimens from the same region.

Molecular signs of the Greek expansion are even more subtle. A peculiarity of our Greek markers is that they relate more to the Aegean and are poorly represented in mainland Greece. This is line with the archeologically documented two-step process of establishment of Aegean colonies and subsequent outward colonizations."

[djoser-xyyman]

BTW there is no genetic evidence of Phoenicians colonizing North Africa or Sardinia. ....none! It is all a lie!! to lessen the African presence and colonization of Mediterranean Islands between Africa and Europe FIRST before occupying and colonizing Southern Europe like Greece, Rome and Sicily and "Sardinia".