Rise Of The Black Pharaohs- On Most Local PBS Stations

[zarahan]

What things do you feel would make it more possible to create an inclusive, fair and balanced approach to Egyptology?

Things like continual pressure, based on credible information, on the academic establishment
and the media whether on websites, blogs, letters to media editors etc, but most
importantly, building up alternative networks (again with credible information, not
easily debunked claims like levitating pyramids etc). These alternatives include places
like the Reloaded forum, ES forum, personal blogs and sites, commentary on other blogs
and forums using that credible data, Youtube videos etc. that help set the record straight.

Part of that also means individuals working independently, harvesting data and info
for the genera data pool. Info can be harvested by providing good links, typing info
out of books and posting it, harvesting screenshots from books, transferring text
etc etc. Not everyone will agree with everything, but the key is building up that data pool
or "base" to put people on sure ground, as well as providing the base to pressure the media
and academia as shown above. Simply complaining is not enough. Exactly HOW are the Natl Geo
depictions wrong? We know from several lines of evidence such as tropical body plans that
they are not telling the while truth. These are the kinds of specifics needed to hammer them
hard, not merely complaints about racism.


That will do the most good in the long run- strong, alternative networks filled with credible information.
Again, everyone may not agree on everything, but if there is solid information so at least arguments
are on reasonable ground, this will prevail against distorters and detractors. Too often
though the zone is flooded with shaky claims (some of which may be by fake agents and provocateurs).
Just because somebody black (or claiming so) shows up, that doesn't give them instant
credibility. They have to make their case, based on the evidence, like everybody else.
A balanced approach is needed, fending off BOTH Eurocentrics AND extreme Afro "enthusiasts", who
while well meaning, sometimes overplay their claims, setting up easy victories for opponents
of Africa and African history. Strong, balanced networks will help avoid these twin dangers.

[nebsen]

Oct 15, 2014 14:58:09 GMT -5 zarahan said:

What things do you feel would make it more possible to create an inclusive, fair and balanced approach to Egyptology?

Things like continual pressure, based on credible information, on the academic establishment
and the media whether on websites, blogs, letters to media editors etc, but most
importantly, building up alternative networks (again with credible information, not
easily debunked claims like levitating pyramids etc). These alternatives include places
like the Reloaded forum, ES forum, personal blogs and sites, commentary on other blogs
and forums using that credible data, Youtube videos etc. that help set the record straight.

Part of that also means individuals working independently, harvesting data and info
for the genera data pool. Info can be harvested by providing good links, typing info
out of books and posting it, harvesting screenshots from books, transferring text
etc etc. Not everyone will agree with everything, but the key is building up that data pool
or "base" to put people on sure ground, as well as providing the base to pressure the media
and academia as shown above. Simply complaining is not enough. Exactly HOW are the Natl Geo
depictions wrong? We know from several lines of evidence such as tropical body plans that
they are not telling the while truth. These are the kinds of specifics needed to hammer them
hard, not merely complaints about racism.


That will do the most good in the long run- strong, alternative networks filled with credible information.
Again, everyone may not agree on everything, but if there is solid information so at least arguments
are on reasonable ground, this will prevail against distorters and detractors. Too often
though the zone is flooded with shaky claims (some of which may be by fake agents and provocateurs).
Just because somebody black (or claiming so) shows up, that doesn't give them instant
credibility. They have to make their case, based on the evidence, like everybody else.
A balanced approach is needed, fending off BOTH Eurocentrics AND extreme Afro "enthusiasts", who
while well meaning, sometimes overplay their claims, setting up easy victories for opponents
of Africa and African history. Strong, balanced networks will help avoid these twin dangers.

Excellent post. Can you tell me in what context this answer came from ? This post is something I whole heartily agree with !

[locdiva]

Calling it by it's proper name, Kemetology, would be a start. Some may say that the Greek name, Egypt is inconsequential. That it has no bearing on Kemet's roots as a black nation. I say that they would never call themselves by their enemies choosing. They proudly called themselves, 'black". We should see them as they saw themselves. Also, reframing the name of study forces Eurocentrists to acknowledge Kemet genetics and culture, or be exposed for the hypocritical frauds that they are.

[zarahan]

Nebsen says:
Excellent post. Can you tell me in what context this answer came from ? This post is something I whole heartily agree with !

This was after a comment by Karem on Page 3. He mentioned also more links with modern
Egyptians in this research. I think that is not a bad thing but I don't put much confidence
in today's Arabized Egyptians on this score. Many have an anti-African mentality, as if "their"
Egypt somehow arose independently- all by itself out of someplace- certainly not Africa!
And certainly not by Africans from the south! Jeepers! Why that would "taint" us
with those "darker" types.. I am exaggerating a bit above for effect but there
are a lot of examples of this mentality, as disrespected and discriminated against
African people in Egypt can attest. SO screw them I say. Let's build up our own
thing. We don't need any stamp of approval from today's Arabized Egyptians. That's
the beauty of it. We don't need any "clearance" or "validation" from them. The data on
the floor now speaks for itself. As long as our base of info is on solid ground, and we
avoid wild claims that make it easy for them to discredit us, we can forge ahead with confidence.


Locdiva says:
Calling it by it's proper name, Kemetology, would be a start. Some may say that the Greek name, Egypt is inconsequential. That it has no bearing on Kemet's roots as a black nation. I say that they would never call themselves by their enemies choosing. They proudly called themselves, 'black". We should see them as they saw themselves. Also, re-framing the name of study forces Eurocentrists to acknowledge Kemet genetics and culture, or be exposed for the hypocritical frauds that they are.

Yeah that would be part of the alternative to be sure. I will say this-
that while there are many Eurocentric scholars, some have put info on the
floor that gives us a more balanced picture. Thanks goodness to these folk,
for they along with the Afro scholars have helped make possible that alternative
balance. Even in the more Eurocentric past there were exceptions and dissents and gaps
that raised questions. Scholar S Keita went back and read old archaeological reports
from Egypt and saw that at least some people back in the early 1900s/late 1880s who
questioned various "Caucasoid" narratives, which didn't square with the info they actually
were digging up. Unfortunately, in some of those old reports from the 1920s & 1930s some researchers
were "reclassifying" African samples as "Mediterranean" or throwing them out altogether as
"foreign" in Egyptian or Nubian digs- as if "negroes" were not "supposed" to be there.
Thank goodness too that has changed though elements of old thinking still show up today,
including in some DNA studies.

Some may say it is not due to goodwill, but since they are competing with
one another for grant money and research renown, the flood of info coming out means
that a total "whitewash" is no longer possible. Or its a better era? Maybe.. maybe both
interpretations can apply.

[seekeroftruth]

@zaharan, What books and other materials do you think would be great in learning about the ancient Nubians?

[zarahan]

There are several books. Some have an "assimilationist" view - others see less of that.
I would say check out several to get a balanced view. The Nubians were the closest cousins
to the Egyptians, but they were at various stages independent in their own right, and indeed
helped in part to found the Dynastic civ.

The other thing to watch out for is the trap of Nubia as the so-called "Black African alternative"
to Egypt. Both Egypt AND Nubia were black African- (Egypt had more of a mix of people over time, particularly
in the North in later times-yes) But its not an "either-or" binary. This is why I object to the title
of a book like Redford's "From Slave to Pharaoh: The Black Experience in Egypt" as dubious. Black folk
were there from the beginning, and the beginning was not slavery, after which the black folk "moved on
up" like George Jefferson. That model is a shaky Eurocentric one. Black folk been in Egypt since Day 1
particularly visible in the south. That whole area is a complex mosiac. But you see, how come no one goes
round talking bout "the white experience" in Egypt? Because that would posit a model of white people
as foreign to Egypt. THe "black experience" model makes the same insinuation- but in an underhanded
way- as if black folk are somehow "foreign" to Egypt. You see how subtly they work- some maybe unconsciously
some very consciously. So some books below read with a grain of salt if they have these kind of models, but
in any event most present good detail. I would say start with the Reloaded and ES resources which will not
take that long to read then dive into the books.


Daily Life of the Nubians by Bianchi
The Black Pharaohs by Wilkinson
The Nubian Pharaohs by Valbelle
Kush Jewel of Nile by Monges
Ancient Nubia- David OConnor
Art books on arts of Nubia
www.amazon.com/s/ref=nav_search_go?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=nubia&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Anubia


But of course there is always RELOADED and Egyptsearch!
See the "Nubian" section in the Basic Database
egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/15/basic-database-nile-valley-studies?page=3&scrollTo=5311

But there is a lot of other material and debates on ES and Reloaded. There is also Youtube videos. Look for folks offering concrete details that tie into the books and studies rather than sweeping theories, like some cats are arguing that the Nubians came over from India. Detail is good. For example one of Egypt's greatest dynasties, the 12th, originated from dark-skinned Nubian stock, according to conservative Egyptologist F. Yurco (1989). The 12th Dynasty ruled approximately 1000 years BEFORE the well known "black" 25th Dynasty. So you don't have to wait around for the Black Pharaohs" of the 25th to have black Pharaohs in Egypt.

[nebsen]

Nov 12, 2014 12:12:03 GMT -5 seekeroftruth said:

@zaharan, What books and other materials do you think would be great in learning about the ancient Nubians?

Seekeroftruth you also asked about other material , this is a excellent documentary called, The Nubian Spirit:
The African Legacy Of The Nile Vally, By Black Nine Films. It is one of my prized documentaries ; also it is a DVD that friends & family can learn from, & enjoy.

[seekeroftruth]

Nov 13, 2014 0:44:08 GMT -5 zarahan said:

There are several books. Some have an "assimilationist" view - others see less of that.
I would say check out several to get a balanced view. The Nubians were the closest cousins
to the Egyptians, but they were at various stages independent in their own right, and indeed
helped in part to found the Dynastic civ.

The other thing to watch out for is the trap of Nubia as the so-called "Black African alternative"
to Egypt. Both Egypt AND Nubia were black African- (Egypt had more of a mix of people over time, particularly
in the North in later times-yes) But its not an "either-or" binary. This is why I object to the title
of a book like Redford's "From Slave to Pharaoh: The Black Experience in Egypt" as dubious. Black folk
were there from the beginning, and the beginning was not slavery, after which the black folk "moved on
up" like George Jefferson. That model is a shaky Eurocentric one. Black folk been in Egypt since Day 1
particularly visible in the south. That whole area is a complex mosiac. But you see, how come no one goes
round talking bout "the white experience" in Egypt? Because that would posit a model of white people
as foreign to Egypt. THe "black experience" model makes the same insinuation- but in an underhanded
way- as if black folk are somehow "foreign" to Egypt. You see how subtly they work- some maybe unconsciously
some very consciously. So some books below read with a grain of salt if they have these kind of models, but
in any event most present good detail. I would say start with the Reloaded and ES resources which will not
take that long to read then dive into the books.


Daily Life of the Nubians by Bianchi
The Black Pharaohs by Wilkinson
The Nubian Pharaohs by Valbelle
Kush Jewel of Nile by Monges
Ancient Nubia- David OConnor
Art books on arts of Nubia
www.amazon.com/s/ref=nav_search_go?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=nubia&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Anubia


But of course there is always RELOADED and Egyptsearch!
See the "Nubian" section in the Basic Database
egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/15/basic-database-nile-valley-studies?page=3&scrollTo=5311

But there is a lot of other material and debates on ES and Reloaded. There is also Youtube videos. Look for folks offering concrete details that tie into the books and studies rather than sweeping theories, like some cats are arguing that the Nubians came over from India. Detail is good. For example one of Egypt's greatest dynasties, the 12th, originated from dark-skinned Nubian stock, according to conservative Egyptologist F. Yurco (1989). The 12th Dynasty ruled approximately 1000 years BEFORE the well known "black" 25th Dynasty. So you don't have to wait around for the Black Pharaohs" of the 25th to have black Pharaohs in Egypt.

Thank you. I will take your advice and peruse the entire section of ES and reloaded first before making any investments in the book.

[seekeroftruth]

Nov 13, 2014 2:48:50 GMT -5 nebsen said:

Nov 12, 2014 12:12:03 GMT -5 seekeroftruth said:

@zaharan, What books and other materials do you think would be great in learning about the ancient Nubians?

Seekeroftruth you also asked about other material , this is a excellent documentary called, The Nubian Spirit:
The African Legacy Of The Nile Vally, By Black Nine Films. It is one of my prized documentaries ; also it is a DVD that friends & family can learn from, & enjoy.

Thank you. I will look into this.