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Post by anansi on Jun 3, 2016 22:42:54 GMT -5
Oh ferfuksakes Proto Saharan came from the west of so-called Nubia, reread or research and stop making stuff up, really?? you came here with some outdated nonsense from selgiman??  For a second I thought hmmm this dude might be a Euro-clown but then...hints starts to drop that you might be a Beacon and Ham centrist, hence why all this talk of geographical and quasi biological determinism..I knew sooner or later you couldn't help exposing your true nature, in any case, without being drawn into Western African civilizations vs East African civilization, divisiveness they have nothing to prove to either Euro clowns or the Beacon Ham cheezy, lettuce hold the mayo and tomato types, but let it be known that the wet phase Sahara was one of the nurseries that gave rise to high civilizations in both east and West Africa.  |
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Post by melanitex on Jun 3, 2016 23:25:33 GMT -5
The first point confirms my point not yours lol the West of Sudan is still in the Northern African Scope where E1b1b is more prevalent. Second my original question has STILL not been answered so I'll leave it at that. Consider it The Great ESR Challenge
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Post by anansi on Jun 4, 2016 1:37:31 GMT -5
The first point confirms my point not yours lol the West of Sudan is still in the Northern African Scope where E1b1b is more prevalent. Second my original question has STILL not been answered so I'll leave it at that. Consider it The Great ESR Challenge Your question answered and your challenge is nonexistent, did West African created scripts..ans yes many different types, some of it independent from one another they use it as a means of communication like anyone else, that they adopt Arabic and transform it to use on a mass scale yes they did. Is there a point to your geo/genetic challenge?? ..no! and are all East African societies anciently literate..no! and if not why not?? |
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Post by melanitex on Jun 4, 2016 4:06:38 GMT -5
The first point confirms my point not yours lol the West of Sudan is still in the Northern African Scope where E1b1b is more prevalent. Second my original question has STILL not been answered so I'll leave it at that. Consider it The Great ESR Challenge Your question answered and your challenge is nonexistent, did West African created scripts..ans yes many different types, some of it independent from one another they use it as a means of communication like anyone else, that they adopt Arabic and transform it to use on a mass scale yes they did. Is there a point to your geo/genetic challenge?? ..no! and are all East African societies anciently literate..no! and if not why not?? Nope according to you and the video the only Script West Africans ever created were supposedly " Top secret scripts" so secret that West Africans are the ONLY people in the entire world to keep their supposed scripts "top secret" and bulls**t pictographs whose time can't even be verified. I'm still waiting for a real script like Greek or Latin or Arabic a Mande Script would be fantastic can you present one of those? N'ko doesn't count because it was created embarrassingly late......later then ANY other race/ethnic group. I mean don't you guys see that as a problem? |
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Post by anansi on Jun 4, 2016 5:33:07 GMT -5
Your question answered and your challenge is nonexistent, did West African created scripts..ans yes many different types, some of it independent from one another they use it as a means of communication like anyone else, that they adopt Arabic and transform it to use on a mass scale yes they did. Is there a point to your geo/genetic challenge?? ..no! and are all East African societies anciently literate..no! and if not why not?? Nope according to you and the video the only Script West Africans ever created were supposedly " Top secret scripts" so secret that West Africans are the ONLY people in the entire world to keep their supposed scripts "top secret" and bulls**t pictographs whose time can't even be verified. I'm still waiting for a real script like Greek or Latin or Arabic a Mande Script would be fantastic can you present one of those? N'ko doesn't count because it was created embarrassingly late......later then ANY other race/ethnic group. I mean don't you guys see that as a problem? Yes knowledge was in the hands of priest and holy men and it was highly guarded right or wrong ,for that was the basis of their power including writing, what they chose to share was according to their will or inclinations, In Kemet it took a social revolution following the 1st intermediate period for the ordinary common folks to have access to an after life and even then in those temples only the priest had access, it was no church or mosque and only those higher up on the chain had access to the most sacred secretive parts of it, it was the sheer number of priest that eventually made writing common in Kmt otherwise you would have a similar situation as in other parts of Africa and exactly why Arabic script was adopted and widely dispersed very rapidly, knowledge was now universal. Time And Context Matters |
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Post by zarahan on Jun 4, 2016 11:36:50 GMT -5
I mentioned Geez in my first post, the semetic speaking Ethopians are mixed and got that script from Arabia they aren't pure like Cushitic Ethiopians like the Oromo who coincidently don't have a script for their language. Nsbidi can we really call it a script it looks like a Ideographic pictograph hardly a real script, I mean a real script like Arabic or Greek Yes while it's true Europeans got their scripts from others (Egyptians Phoneticians etc etc) however you have to admit the European Scripts like Greek Latin Gothic Cyriilic is divergent enough you can clearly see the changes implemented the Greek Script looks nothing like the Hieroglyphics. All I'm asking for is a real script before Arabic or European invasion no pictographs or ideographic were a picture represents an idea a real alphabetic or abjad script like everybody else all over the world has. West Africa and South Africa would be great You claimed earlier that "most of the Sub Saharan African Scripts were made relatively recently 1800's - 1900's Vai, N'Ko Akene Script meaning Sub Sahara Africa was illiterate before outside intervention (Europeans, Arabs)"This is plainly rubbish as demonstrated above. And Nsibidi is a type of script. It was not a full blown alphabetic script or hieroglyphic script but it is a valid writing system, as valid as other writing systems of the same type in the world before the coming of detailed phonetic types and alphabets. As already stated, Europe did not invent any of the writing it is using these days either, but got it from Africa (Egypt) via adaptations of Egyptian script by Semitic merchants as scholars above show. Likewise Europe did not invent the Christian religion most follow today but copied that from people in the Middle East and North Africa.. The Semite and Egyptian interaction produced the ancestor of today's alphabet. In addition, Kush, which is in part a sub-Saharan entity, already had its own cursive script drawing upon Egyptian hieroglyphic traditions long before any Arabs or Europeans showed up. All of these are primarily indigenous, though alphabetic scripts as we know them today, were influenced in part by the Egyptian Semitic fusion and adaptation. Anyway because nobody has been able to answer my question directly. People here have already answered your question directly but you keep running, ducking and dodging rather than addressing your failures, and introducing new bogus arguments which equally fail, as demonstrated below. hey got their scripts and they diverged it enough just look at the Gothic, Runic, Cyrillic and Latin Alphabets they look NOTHING like Egyptian Hieroglyphs Proto-Sinatic or Pheoncian Scripts. Europeans diverged these scripts enough, yes they got help from an original source absolutely but they changed and modified them. Now can Africans claim the same thing especially as early as Europeans did it?? Most of those Alphabets were in use by the 8th Century in Europe. West Africa didn't even have writing by the 8th Century...As already demonstrated with data by credible mainstream scholars, the European alphabets developed from the ancestral elements developed in Africa's Nile Valley, via adaptation and fusion of simplified Egyptian cursive scripts by Semitic merchants, workmen etc. The ultimate genesis of those alphabets is thus in Africa. Knowledgeable Africans do not run around claiming to have invented Latin or Russian script, that's bogus. They simply point out the ancestral background per above. Who goes around saying Latin came direct from ancient Thebes for example? That's laughable. And why do Russian Cyrillic or Roman Latin script have to "look like" Hieroglyphs or SInatic script to "prove" their derivative background? This too is nonsense. No scholar uses any such naive and nonsensical "eyeball" standard.  the only Script West Africans ever created were supposedly " Top secret scripts" so secret that West Africans are the ONLY people in the entire world to keep their supposed scripts "top secret" and bulls**t pictographs whose time can't even be verified. I'm still waiting for a real script like Greek or Latin or Arabic a Mande Script would be fantastic can you present one of those? N'ko doesn't count because it was created embarrassingly late......later then ANY other race/ethnic group. I mean don't you guys see that as a problem? You are only demonstrating your hypocrisy. Northern Europe had no early, comprehensive indigenous script either and had to wait until it was introduced by non-Europeans influences. They are thus "embrrasingly late" while the sub- Saharan kingdoms of Kush and Ethiopia already had writing in place centuries earlier. Not only is your own hypocrisy exposed, but also your lack of knowledge. Africans had indigenous writing long BEFORE Europeans. And your claim of "top secret" is more bogus rubbish. All the data re writing is clearly laid out in this thread . And secret scripts are nothing new in the history of writing. In fact, many traditions of writing develop first among religious specialists, who the world over have special knowledge known only to them. Egypt's writing in part developed among priests who used writing to inscibe hymns, prayers and meditations important to the afterlife. This usuage was never exclusive. Administration and commerce sooner or later followed suit for the practical benefits. West Africa is no different. Proto-Nsibidi developed among religious specialists and holders of sacred or secret knowledge, and thus goes back for centuries. But there too, practical everyday use in administration, commerce, or personal matters operated alongside or followed soon thereafter. And Africa is nothing special as far as "top secret" writing by religious specialists. The Greeks produced numerous "top secret" special writings for religious and magical purposes, including alchemy. In fact, there are several books containing a fusion of Egyptian, Greek and Roman secret writings and magical formulas. And in northern Europe, runes were often used for magical purposes and were plenty "top secret." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_magicAnd by the way, the earliest runic inscriptions date only to 150AD, "embarassingly late" to use your bogus phrase. Your earlier claim: "most of the Sub Saharan African Scripts were made relatively recently 1800's - 1900's Vai, N'Ko Akene Script meaning Sub Sahara
Africa was illiterate before outside intervention (Europeans, Arabs)"still stands debunked along with the other claims you advance, equally bogus. |
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Post by zarahan on Jun 4, 2016 12:38:51 GMT -5
Oh ferfuksakes Proto Saharan came from the west of so-called Nubia, reread or research and stop making stuff up, really?? you came here with some outdated nonsense from selgiman?? For a second I thought hmmm this dude might be a Euro-clown but then...hints starts to drop that you might be a Beacon and Ham centrist, hence why all this talk of geographical and quasi biological determinism..I knew sooner or later you couldn't help exposing your true nature, in any case, without being drawn into Western African civilizations vs East African civilization, divisiveness they have nothing to prove to either Euro clowns or the Beacon Ham cheezy, lettuce hold the mayo and tomato types, but let it be known that the wet phase Sahara was one of the nurseries that gave rise to high civilizations in both east and West Africa. LOL. Seems to be "Anglo" again going under another username. But no matter which one he uses he is still debunked. |
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Post by zarahan on Jun 4, 2016 13:22:56 GMT -5
Desalin says: The Amharic and other Semitic speaking Ethiopians have a portion of J Y-DNA Haplogroup (as well as E1b1b of course) so they DO have some admixture in them, the Oromo (Cushites) are the "pure" Ethiopians" as their J Y-DNA genetic marker is much much lower. It's interesting how the Oromo don't have a script but the Semitic Speaking Ethiopians do think about that for a minute..... Laughable pablum, no matter what user account you have switched to. So what if some Ethiopians have some Haplogroup J? If this is your talking point it fails, for the white Greeks likewise are not "pure" but show clear mixes of "negro blood." Let's apply your own race insinuation model- thus, since Greeks, developed their writing systems using the Nile valley African derived scripts- obviously they lacked the capacity to do so until the coming of the "negro blood," using your own argument. "-- To use your own quote- "Do think about that for a minute." using you own approach.  OK lets turn our attention to Timbuktu for example (the greatest Universities in Medieval West Africa) don't you guys find it a little disheartening that West Africans had to use Arabic for their OWN universities and for whatever reason didn't have the ability or intelligence to create their OWN scripts to use in Timbuktu like all other Europeans that were able to create their own scripts for their societies?? I mean it is well known the Soninke (Mande Peoples) were the founders of the Ancient West African Empires but not even they have a script!! they had to use oral tradition/history instead. >_<
So that's the point: ... "for whatever reason didn't have the ability or intelligence to create their OWN scripts to use in Timbuktu like all other Europeans that were able to create their own scripts for their societies??" Then we turn our attention to another crock of your racist BS. Don't YOU find it disheartening that your touted Europeans had to wait for the African derived scripts before they could start using "real" writing? Why are you ducking and dodging that hypocrite? Using your own approach- quite- then your own Europeans- your Quote: " ... "for whatever reason didn't have the ability or intelligence to create their OWN scripts."And you yourself appear to be somewhat ignorant. As already demonstrated by credible scholars, the European scripts derive from the African Nile Valley variants. Using your own racist approach, Europe was therefore intellectually unable to do the same without outside influence by the Africans. And as further demonstration of your ignorance, West Africans already had valid writing systems in place BEFORE Arabs or Europeans showed up. So what if they later adopted Arabic forms as in Ajami? Europe ALSO adopted non-European forms. Your hypocrisy is exposed once again. Hmmm! I see better now. It's all about assessing a group's intelligence by its ability to create their own script. A few of them come to mind: all the ethnic group of the British isles, the franks, the germanic tribes, etc... Wait a minute! No credible regular of this board advanced any such notion. As Anansi has noted, the transfer of knowledge and adoption of techniques by peoples from one another is a common human endeavour, without race being of any significance. But let's apply YOUR racialist approach. It is you ,"Melatinex" and assorted "HBD" types elsewhere that are pushing just such a racist approach, with constant insinuations of this and that based on "scripts" After laying low for a while attempting to build up activity "post counts" you both have finally come into the open with your racist approaches. But no matter what approach or user name, you still fail. Since you are pushing them, we are applying YOUR own race models and standards, and they have all backfired on you. |
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Post by zarahan on Jun 4, 2016 20:25:43 GMT -5
I've read a bunch of different epochs for nsibidi. Some say it's recent (read AD) and some say it's Ancient. I have yet to find the definitive source. It is tough because much of this stuff is guesswork. No it is not all guesswork. Credible mainstream scholars have established the case, and all point to Nsibidi being in place BEFORE any Arabs or Europeans showed up. No one knows the "exact" data- any more people know the "exact" date that writing was invented. Newer scholarship however tells us that the Egyptians of Africa's Nile Valley had writing in place before Mesopotamia (Dreyer 1999, et al, Weeks 2001). Nsibidi started out the province of religious specialists who had sacred things to say & protect- just as other religious types around the globe early used writing similarly. This background demonstrates that the system was not a recent invention copying Arab forms but was deeply rooted in the culture of the people going back centuries. And like other places, what once was the monopoly of a few specialists or cultists started to spread more widely as it was adopted for commerce and government. In short, African systems followed a typical pattern in other places- from specialist to more generalist use. No amount of racist propaganda can change the credible facts. And again, as already noted, would-be European "role models" have been unimpressive in the development of writing. Even today's main European religion comes not from Europe but from the sub-tropical, non-European "Middle East." And note the uses of Nsibidi- concepts, sounds, court litigation, military messages and literature, yes literature and stories, and even private romantic messages. Anansi correctly notes that the specialists hid some of their writing. Some seem to find this "wrong." But actually it demonstrates impeccable common sense by the Africans. The writings that were concealed were religious, military and confidential personal correspondence. Who is gonna go about showing anyone and everyone their private romantic messages? Or why would the Pope go posting his secret religious deliberations on Facebook? And what fool is gonna go about broadcasting his latest military moves by distributing military messages on the nightly news? Why would the African users of Nsibidi go around "sharing" everything they wrote? The "logic" of assorted racialists when it cones to Africa is ludicrous.  "The use of nsibidi is that of ordinary writing. I have in my possession a copy of the record of a court case from a town of Enion [Enyong] taken down in it, and every detail, except the evidence, is most graphically described- the parties in the case, the witnesses, the dilemma of the chief who tried it, his sending out messengers to call other chiefs to help him, the finding of the court and the joy of the successful litigants and of their friends.." --J. K., Macgregor (January-June 1909). "Some Notes on Nsibidi.". Journal of the Royal Anthropological Institute 39: 209-219. “Elphinstone Daryell, however argues that "many of the signs reproduced are connected with one another and form short stories. He gives several examples of how this is done and one folktale in particular is worthy of mention- the story of the miracle child, born from his mother's knee, who is disowned by his father. In this version the child kills his father with a spear and disappears up a long rope into the sky. This is all skilfullly narrated by the clever assembling of four geometrically patterned symbols, each one representing a section of the story.. As has been shown, writing existed- writing that was not unrelated to literature, and that was pictographic. Side by side with this existed highly developed forms of writing which were in some cases applied to literature.“ -- The Black Mind: A History of African Literature. 1974. O.R. Dathorne, Professor of English, University of Kentucky, University of Minnesota Press. Cite- [Dayrell, Elphinstone (July-December 1911). "Further Notes on 'Nsibidi Signs with Their Meanings from the Ikom District, Southern Nigeria". Journal of the Royal Anthropological Institute 41: 521-540] "Nsidibi was a script found among a number of Cross River peoples which owed nothing to foreign exemplars- each symbol is an ideograph, as in Chinese. Because each symbol represented a concept, it could be used between peopes speaking different anguages; over 500 signs are recorded, and there is reason to believe that they were only a small partof the whole. There are suggestions that it was used by the Ekpe society but there is a record of a school where children were taught signs. A curious aspect of Nsibidi, as recorded by three separate observers in the early twentieth century, was that many of the signs dealth with love affairs! It seems likely that ideographs dealing with religion and war were kept secret- and that the choice of signs to explain to European officials were an elaborate joke, as well as a way of protecting the realm of the secret/sacred from outsiders." --A History of African Societies to 1870. Elizabeth Isichei, 1997. Professor, University of Otago, New Zealand. Cambridge University Press. “The Nsibidi signs used by secret societies in various language groups in southern Nigeria, e.g. the Igbo, Efik, and Ekoi have been considered by some to be of a similar pictographic nature, but others have maintained it to be true writing, based on a logographic or syllabary system." -- Gregersen, Edgar A. (1977). Language in Africa: An introductory survey. p. 176. "However, such systems are also found in areas where Muslim influence has been less strong or is unlikely. Thus, among the Ashanti and other Akan-speaking peoples of Ghana and Cote D'Ivorie, where gold was of great political, economic and symbolic significance, many goldweights bore signs that indicated their precise ponderal value; other signs corresponded to proverbs, while others represented concepts (for example, certain aspects of the Supreme Being). The nsibidi system of the Ekoi, Igbo and Ibibio peoples of the Cross River area of present-day Nigeria used over a thousand signs to represent a considerable number of concepts as well as some sounds. Nsibidi was used to record court cases and convey complex messages, including warnings in wartime, and for summarizing folktales and personal narratives; its pictograms thus constituted a true writing system. As with the Malian systems of graphic signs, knowledge of nsibidi was often acquired within the initiation societies, but unlike the Malian ones, nsibidi signs were often tattooed on the body or dramatically enacted through gestures." --Kevin Shllingford (2004) "Literacy and Indigenous Scripts: Pre-colonial West Africa" - Encyclopedia of African History |
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Post by melanitex on Jun 4, 2016 22:36:00 GMT -5
This is plainly rubbish as demonstrated above. And Nsibidi is a type of script. It was not a full blown alphabetic
script or hieroglyphic script but it is a valid writing system, as valid as other writing systems
I disagree it lacks sophistication and is very basic yes it's a writing system fair enough although a primitive one.
As already stated, Europe did not invent any
of the writing it is using these days either, but got it from Africa (Egypt) via adaptations of Egyptian script
by Semitic merchants as scholars above show. Likewise Europe did not invent the Christian religion most follow
today but copied that from people in the Middle East and North Africa.. The Semite and Egyptian interaction produced
the ancestor of today's alphabet
That's true but if you were reading I conceded several times they adapted/diverged scripts I said this several times I just stated they diverged it ENOUGH
"And why do Russian Cyrillic or Roman Latin script have to "look like" Hieroglyphs or SInatic script to "prove" their derivative background? This too is nonsense. No scholar uses any such naive and nonsensical "eyeball" standard."
Yes but you can visually see the symbolic similarities within the scripts when you follow them...
In addition, Kush, which is in part a sub-Saharan entity, already had its own
cursive script drawing upon Egyptian hieroglyphic traditions long before any Arabs or Europeans showed
I take it you're talking about the Merotic Script? since that location is within the Saharan Portion of Africa it disqualifies sorry.
You are only demonstrating your hypocrisy. Northern Europe had no early, comprehensive indigenous script either and
had to wait until it was introduced by non-Europeans influences. They are thus "embrrasingly late" while the sub-
Saharan kingdoms of Kush and Ethiopia already had writing in place centuries earlier. Not only is your own
hypocrisy exposed, but also your lack of knowledge. Africans had indigenous writing long BEFORE Europeans.
Since Kush is in Northern Sudan it disqualifies it is hardly in Sub-Sahara Africa in another one of your posts you stressed the point that Coastal North Africa doesn't just include Egypt Libya Tunisia Morroco etc but also includes large parts of Sudan, Niger, Mali don't go back on that now. As for Ethiopia fair enough that is in Sub-Sahara Africa such a shame the more pure Ethiopians (Cushitic) couldn't devise a script though but whatever fine you're essentially still right on this point Northern Europeans did not have an indigenous script.
And by the way, the earliest runic inscriptions date only to 150AD, "embarassingly late" to use your bogus phrase.
Still earlier then any West or Central African Script and before you bring up Nsibidi again I'm talking about an advanced script I'm sure I can find a primitive pictograph system in the highland of a European forest somewhere.
Laughable pablum, no matter what user account you have switched to. So what if some Ethiopians have some Haplogroup J? If this is your talking point it fails, for the white Greeks likewise are not "pure" but show clear mixes of "negro blood." Let's apply your own race insinuation model- thus, since Greeks, developed their writing systems using the Nile valley African derived scripts- obviously they lacked the capacity to do so until the coming of the "negro blood," using your own argument. "-- To use your own quote- "Do think about that for a minute." using you own approach.
Good point I didn't even consider that.
still stands debunked along with the other claims you advance, equally bogus.
Nope most West African Scripts were made in 19th Century I gave you the examples would you like me to provide them for you again?
LOL. Seems to be "Anglo" again going under another username. But no matter which one he uses
he is still debunked.
Let's get one thing straight I am NOT an Anglo I have spent lots of time debating White Supremacists on-line who spout racism against Africans especially Sub-Saharan Africans do you think I like fighting with NO evidence or proof? However at the same time I am honest with myself and others I don't like Afrocentrism or grand claims without evidence because it makes us look WEAK and desperate for history and if you must know both of my parents are from Barbados
Then we turn our attention to another crock of your racist BS. Don't YOU find it disheartening that your touted Europeans had to wait for the African derived scripts before they could start using "real" writing? Why are you ducking and dodging that hypocrite?
Who says I'm ducking and dodging unlike you guys I answer questions directly and don't create fluff and excuses for peoples. As I have conceded for the 1000th time, Yes Europeans DID have to wait for contact with Semitic Scripts which in turn came from African Nile Valley Scripts YES YES YES YES YES YES YES. But here's the problem the Europeans then DIVERGED those scripts and adapted them for their OWN use. SHOW ME the advanced alphabetic or abjad script that was obtained and then diverged and used in West Africa or South/Southeast African (Bantu peoples) E1b1a carriers in a reasonable time scale i'll be waiting (but you'll deflect again as usual so what's the point eh?)
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Post by anansi on Jun 5, 2016 6:56:43 GMT -5
While I agree you are not a Euro clown your posting on this matter mimic's theirs, I believe many having their brains scrambled on many a white supremacist websites, with the granted status of being considered honorary whites or blackwhitemen, while on a whole being disrespected by them, and yes you keep shifting the goal post, you asked for Sub Saharan examples yet wanting to dismiss Meroitic Kush and Axum even though they fall with in the tropic of cancer and in the case of Axum far below the Sahara.  Why because it blows a hole in your racialist Hamitic theory about kneegrows vs Ham and eggs. You keep asking. I and others have told you the Ajami script which used Arabic characters in much the same way people used Roman characters in their own languages, this was done by the 12th century, the same was used by the Swahili a bantu speaking folk on the other side of Africa.  You also dismissed the proto Saharan script which gave rise to Tifinagh and other variations found through out west Africa which although clearly sub Saharan you need to add qualifiers..pls let go of that stupid race theory and move forward. |
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Post by zarahan on Jun 5, 2016 12:14:44 GMT -5
Melanitex says: I disagree it lacks sophistication and is very basic yes it's a writing system fair enough although a primitive one. Europe did not do any better until it borrowed scripts from the non-European Middle East by way of the African Nile Valley, and Semitic speakers in Egypt. I take it you're talking about the Merotic Script? since that location is within the Saharan Portion of Africa it disqualifies sorry. Doesn't disqualify it at all. The Meriotic and Kushitic kingdoms extended down into sub-Saharan Africa, as already shown in detail. The movement of the Sahara south over the centuries obscures this but many cultures and peoples that are today located north were once "below" the Sahara. And on top of that, we have Geez, also located in "sub-Saharan" Africa. Your claim is the only thing disqualified. Since Kush is in Northern Sudan it disqualifies it is hardly in Sub-Sahara Africa i But as already noted Kush extended into what is today sub-Saharan Africa. Even taking the current line of the Sahara, Kushite administration STILL extended past it, even today, after centuries of the desert creeping southward.   www.nairaland.com/search?q=images&search=SearchIn another one of your posts you stressed the point that Coastal North Africa doesn't just include Egypt Libya Tunisia Morroco etc but also includes large parts of Sudan, Niger, Mali don't go back on that now. Baloney. There is nothing to "go back" on. Coastal north Africa does not include the areas you mention, so it is not a true representation of the entity called North Africa. That is not at issue. But what you fail to realize also is that parts of "North Africa" are also "sub-Saharan." Parts of Mauritania, Mali, Chad and the Sudan are themselves "sub-Saharan." And your European Greeks and other southern Europeans are not "pure" either, but "mixed"- to use the same Euro-American racial models you favor. Still earlier then any West or Central African Script and before you bring up Nsibidi again I'm talking about an advanced script I'm sure I can find a primitive pictograph system in the highland of a European forest somewhere.But the European scripting 150ad you mention was only developed after copying from the non-European Egyptians and middle easterners. So there is nothing "early" you can brag about. And the sub-Saharan scripts of Meroe and Ethiopia were centuries BEFORE anything in said Europe. Nope most West African Scripts were made in 19th Century I gave you the examples would you like me to provide them for you again? Complete nonsense already debunked. As already shown by credible mainstream scholars, Nsibidi was around long before the 19th century and long before any Arabs or Europeans showed up. I am honest with myself and others I don't like Afrocentrism or grand claims without evidence because it makes us look WEAK and desperate for history and if you must know both of my parents are from Barbados Dubious. Methinks you are just frontin. But a Bajan or no would be forced to acknowledge that the scholarship shown herein repeatedly, debunks the claims you are making. Who says I'm ducking and dodging unlike you guys I answer questions directly and don't create fluff and excuses for peoples. As I have conceded for the 1000th time, Yes Europeans DID have to wait for contact with Semitic Scripts which in turn came from African Nile Valley Scripts YES YES YES YES YES YES YES. There isn't any "deflecting" going on, except by you. You keep shifting around while restating the same debunked arguments in different form. As already shown above, your claims, which you keep repeating are rubbish. You yet again above deny the West African writing that was around before Arabs and Europeans established themselves in West Africa. You keep trying to disparage African people by talking bout "late" writing, when your own touted white people also were "late" on the bandwagon, way later than the sub-Saharan Kushites or Ethiopians. But here's the problem the Europeans then DIVERGED those scripts and adapted them for their OWN use. SHOW ME the advanced alphabetic or abjad script that was obtained and then diverged and used in West Africa or South/Southeast African (Bantu peoples) E1b1a carriers in a reasonable time scale i'll be waiting (but you'll deflect again as usual so what's the point eh?)What "problem"? Here you go again, displaying your bias and also lack of logic, and even elementary grasp of African history. What sort of "Bajan" are you? You say the Europeans adapted and diverged the scripts, then say show me where the Africans did. Read man, read! We have already repeated the information like 5 times, but you keep ducking and dodging it to maintain your racialist model. Anansi has already discussed the Ajami scripts in which, wait for it, West Africans took the Arabic alphabetic system and yes, "DIVERGED" and adapted it "for their OWN use." Ajami script adaptations including the development of a clear Ajami literature, goes back some 500 years or more. Duh.. alma.matrix.msu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/AjamiIntroductionFallou.pdf |
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Jun 5, 2016 23:03:51 GMT -5
@ Melanitex
Where can we go read your pre-ESR writings
and under what pseudonyms did you post?
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Post by clydewin98 on Jun 10, 2016 13:17:25 GMT -5
I have always wondered why it seems the majority of Africa's scripts are confined to the Sahara or upper portion of the continent Egyptian Hieroglyphs Merotic and Old Nubian Scripts Geez (Ethipoic) Script What scripts were ingenious to Sub-Sahara Africa??? West Africa in particular. I am particularly interested in hearing those of you that believe current West Africans aren't ingenious there and started out in the Nubia area why didn't the Egyptian Hieroglyphic system or Old Nubian/Merotic Script make it's way down to Sub-Sahara Africa and spread like the way scripts did in Europe? First of all African writing systems are based on Thinite writing. Secondly, the majority of West Africans formerly lived in the Fezzan and Nile Valley before they migrated into West Africa. The first syllabic writing system of Africans was the Thinite script. This writing was used first by Blacks in Nubia, like the Niger-Congo people who migrated out of this region into the rest of Africa. -  The Thinite script provides many of the signs that are included in later scripts used by Africans. In Nubia, Black Africans were using Thinite symbols before the rise of Egypt to record their ideas and report on important events. This writing was later used by Africans to write inscriptions throughout Middle Africa. here is an inscription Oued  - The evidence of this writing is found throughout the Sahara. By the time Mande speaking people settled Dar Tichitt they left numerous inscriptions. The people of Dar Tichitt were Mande speakers. These Mande speaking people also lived in the Fezzan where they were called Garamante/Garamandes. The Garamante settled Crete and are recognized as the Eteo-Cretans or Minoans. - The mande speaking people of West Africa later took their writing system to America.   As you can see Africans West of Egypt used many writing systems. |
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Post by clydewin98 on Jun 10, 2016 15:45:02 GMT -5
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