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Post by zarahan on Oct 13, 2024 9:20:15 GMT -5
^ Obviously the problem with past reconstructions is that they were white-washed. Even forensic artists have admitted that there are tissue depth differences based on ethnic/racial differences which effect the outcome of facial reconstructions on skulls yet the general rule was to use European/Caucasian tissue depth measurements. The most objective reconstructions come from forensic artists who are double-blinded meaning they don't know where the skulls come from or who they are. In this regard, some artists tend to be confused or puzzled over the suite of features. Susan Anton for example notes that an Egyptian skull like Tut tend to have a calvarium shape that's African while the face looks more 'European' especially traits like the nasal opening. Then there are other forensic artists who are more experienced or knowledgeable enough to know that Africans are diverse and have experience dealing with skulls from say the Horn of Africa who bear a close resemblance to ancient Egyptians.. That said, one has to acknowledge that even among African populations there are differences which leads to my point that the problem I see now with these newer reconstructions from Black Americans is, although they solve the issue of white-wash, they tend to project Black American/West African traits onto the reconstructions. Again, we know from anthropology that East Africans from the Horn bear a much closer resemblance metrically, but those who resemble them the best would be none other than Nile Valley Nubians and especially Baladi Egyptians are are the direct descendants! This is why these type of American/West-Afrocentric reconstructions are just fodder for white racist and Eurasiocentrics who can dismiss them as black-painting or rather their bizarre term of "black-washing". Nobody resembles the ancient Egyptians best than their descendants the Baladi Egyptians and their Nubian kinsmen. reconstruction of priest IrethorrouYes these reconstructions should always keep in mind that the people most related to AEs are Nubians. Many of the reconstructions are within the range of African Diversity as well, and it should be kept in mind too that Egyptians had diverse looks too- a point too often ignored by whitewashing Eurocentrics and unfortunately some overboard online "afro-enthusiasts" who want a more political, cheerleading push, and get mad as ES folk who use a more careful, balanced approach. Sadly, a new online crop in some areas of the web are using the data carefully harvested by ES members for all sorts of claims. I had to tell one Facebook "enthusiast" years ago, who insisted that ONLY "sub-subsaharan blacks" were in Egypt prior to the Greek arrival to stop spinning bullshiit- playing into the hands of the detractors of African diversity. The data speaks for itself, cheerleading is not needed. Course, he/she might have been a troll setting up supposed "Afrocentric" strawmen to "refute." Still some of these newer depictions are no worse than standard Eurocentric conceptions. Yurco said way back that the 12th Dynasty (one of Egypt's greatest) showed the strong features and coloring pointing to some Nubian background. Such data is extremely painful to assorted white "hereditarians" and even some liberals, who have built their reps and careers on bogus, stereotypical "true negroes" somewhere south of Timbuktu with all else being "non-African" or "non-blek." It is also painful to assorted Arabists who also want alleged "true" Africans to be far, far south, anywhere but the Egyptian Nile Valley and adjacent desert zones, where allegedly pure "non Africans" mysteriously materialized out of the Nile waters, or migrated from conveniently placed "wandering Caucasoids"- strangely divorced from surrounding cultures.
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Post by kel on Oct 13, 2024 15:17:17 GMT -5
Again. Bullshit.
"Early southern predynastic Egyptian crania show tropical African affinities,...."
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Post by kel on Oct 13, 2024 15:22:45 GMT -5
"Further studies of crania from ancient Northern Africa: An analysis of crania from First Dynasty Egyptian tombs, using multiple discriminant functions"
'The predominant craniometric pattern in the Abydos royal tombs is "southern" (tropi- cal African variant), and this is consistent with what would be expected based on the literature and other results (Keita, 1990)'
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Post by djehuti on Oct 13, 2024 16:15:10 GMT -5
^ When it comes to phenotype or actual physical appearance haplotypes don't mean sh*t at all. There are (white) British folks who carry Y hg A000, obviously they don't look a thing like those in Africa who carry the same haplotype, anymore than Cameroonians who carry Y hg R1b resemble majority of Western Europeans. Unfortunately, Kel has fallen victim to the same wishful thinking that the Euronuts have. Northeast Africans like the Egyptians and Nubians have a metric modal facial type very different from most West Africans except maybe pastoralist Fulani. No amount of wishful thinking is going to change this. In fact this is the reason why Egyptian (and Nubian) crania were classified as "caucasoid" in the first place. ^ Type A (Sub-Saharan) skulls are noted for the medial widening of the face while Type B (North-Saharan) is noted for the opposite-- medial narrowing of the face. Again. Bullshit. "Early southern predynastic Egyptian crania show tropical African affinities,...." "Further studies of crania from ancient Northern Africa: An analysis of crania from First Dynasty Egyptian tombs, using multiple discriminant functions" 'The predominant craniometric pattern in the Abydos royal tombs is "southern" (tropi- cal African variant), and this is consistent with what would be expected based on the literature and other results (Keita, 1990)' LOL "tropical" and "southern" does NOT mean West African looking. Get this in your mind. According to Keita the closest group associated with West Africans that resembled ancient Egyptians were the Bantu speaking Teita, however even he admits that those who resemble them best are Afroasiatic speaking Horn Africans and modern Egypto-Nubians. And that is just one of several differences. So Yes while the Egyptians were black Africans that does not mean they were the same as West Africans even if they share E1b1a, Benin HbS, or HLA DBR1. Also, in regards to Baladi looking "Arab or Turkish mixed", Baladi are highly endogamous meaning they only marry within their own community which is why they best preserve their ancient (black) phenotype. The problem is that there is a dishonest trend in the internet of trying to pass off non-Baladi (often light-skinned or mixed types) as Baladi. To Lioness, we don't even know the identities of all those unpainted Amarna busts. Many assume that particular one represents Nefertiti but we just don't know. Remember it was realized via DNA testing not long ago that the Younger Lady is not Nefertiti but a full sibling of Tut's father who many assume is Akhenaten, but the genetics calls even that into question.
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Post by kel on Oct 13, 2024 16:43:27 GMT -5
"According to Keita the closest group associated with West Africans that resembled ancient Egyptians were the Bantu speaking Teita"
Bump
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Post by djehuti on Oct 13, 2024 16:50:25 GMT -5
^ Correct. Though Keita wasn't the first one to point this out. Decades before him it was the late M.D. and sci-fi author Michael Cricheton who wrote a dissertation paper on the topic. That said, the Teita are a East African Bantu speaking group not a West African one and as I also said, Keita admits those who resemble the Egyptians best are contemporary populations in the Nile Valley and the Horn. African populations look different from each other.
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Post by maverick5 on Oct 13, 2024 17:33:39 GMT -5
Thank You Djeuti like I said it's common sense. If the Ancient Egyptians were West/Central African looking than all of the craniometric studies over the many decades would've grouped them in Negroids in the first place.
However with that said I will admit that the features of the Sphinx does look very "negroid" (This however does not mean the majority of the population was Negroid)
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Post by kel on Oct 13, 2024 18:18:32 GMT -5
gibberish
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Post by kel on Oct 13, 2024 18:21:48 GMT -5
West African Bantu are from the East.
bump
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Post by djehuti on Oct 13, 2024 20:41:57 GMT -5
^ Bantu languages originated in West Africa, but language is not the same as population. I even created a thread in Egyptsearch explaining how the oldest "negroid" skulls were found in North Africa while the oldest "caucasoid/Hamitic" skulls were found in Sub-Sahara (Rift Valley), yet this seems to be the dirty open secret that most anthropologists don't want to talk about. The same is true with prehistoric South African fossils like Hofmeyr and Boskop which we discuss here. The so-called racial dynamics we know about Africa today did not hold true in earlier times.
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Post by thelioness on Oct 13, 2024 20:46:09 GMT -5
To Lioness, we don't even know the identities of all those unpainted Amarna busts. Many assume that particular one represents Nefertiti but we just don't know. Remember it was realized via DNA testing not long ago that the Younger Lady is not Nefertiti but a full sibling of Tut's father who many assume is Akhenaten, but the genetics calls even that into question. My remake on the left. The one on the right seemingly trying to do a prettier version than the sculpture with less unusual head My view is if you are going to use a piece of art its should stick strictly to the art, virtually just colorizing it
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