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Post by thelioness on Oct 20, 2024 16:31:42 GMT -5
 Leo AfricanusDescription below of black Moors and tawny Moors by by Leo Africanus (John Leo) quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A05331.0001.001/1:16?rgn=div1;view=fulltext A Geographical history of Africa, written in Arabic and Italian
by John Leo a Moor born in Granada and brought up in Barbary.
( Old English title:
A Geographical historie of Africa, written in Arabicke and Italian
by Iohn Leo a More, borne in Granada, and brought vp in Barbarie.)
by Leo Africanus (John Leo)
1492-ca. 1550.
PAGE 2The <()> of Africa.OVR authors affirme, that Africa is ; into fower partes, that is to say, Barbaria, Numidia, Libya, and the lande of Negros. Barbaria taketh beginning from the hill called Meies, which is the extreme part of all the mountaines of Atlas, being distant from Alexandria almost three hundred miles. It is bounded on the North side with the Mediterran sea, stretching thence to mount-Meies aforesaid, and from mount;Meies extending itselfe to the streites of Gibraltar. Westward it is limited with the said streites, from whence winding it selfe out of the Mediterran sea into the maine Ocean, it is inclosed with the most westerly point of Atlas: namely, at that Westerne cape which is next vnto the towne called Messa. And southward it is bounded with that side of Atlas which lieth towards the Mediterran sea. This is the most noble and worthie region of all Africa, the inhabitants whereof are of a browne or tawnie colour, being a ciuill people, and prescribe wholsome lawes and constitutions vnto themselues.The second part of Africa is called of the Latines Numidia, but of the Arabians Biledulgerid: this region bringeth foorth dates in great abundance. It beginneth eastward at the citie of Eloacat, which is an hundred miles distant from Egypt, & extendeth west as far as the towne of Nun, standing vpon the Ocean sea. Northward it is inclosed with the south side of Atlas. And the south part thereof bordereth vpon the sandie deserts of Libya. All the Arabians doe usually call it The land of dates: because this onely region of Africa beareth dates.The third part called of the Latines Libya, and of the Arabians Sarra (which word signifieth a desert) beginneth eastward at that part of Nilus which is next vnto the citie of Eloacat, and from thence runneth westward as far as the Ocean sea. Northwarde it is bounded with Numidia, southward it abutteth vpon the land of Negros, eastward it taketh beginning at the kingdome of Gaoga, and stretcheth westwarde euen to the land of Gualata, which bordereth vpon the Ocean sea.
The fourth part of Africa which is called the land of Negros, beginneth eastward at the kingdome of Gaoga, from whence it extendeth west as far as Gualata. The north part thereof is inclosed with the desert of Libya, and the south part, which is vnknowen vnto vs, with the Ocean sea: howbeit the merchants which daily come from thence to the kingdome of Tombuto, haue sufficiently described the situation of that countrie vnto vs. This lande of Negros hath a mightie riuer, which taking his name of the region, is called Niger: this riuer taketh his originall from the east out of a certaine desert called by the foresaide Negros Seu. Others will haue this riuer to spring out of a certaine lake, and so to runs PAGE 5Of the habitations of Africa, and of the signification of this word Barbar.OVr Cosmographers and historiographers affirme, that in times past Africa was altogether disinhabited, except that part which is now called the land of Negros: and most certaine it is, that Barbarie and Numidia were for many ages destitute of inhabitants. The tawnie people of the said region were called by the name of Barbar, being deriued of the verbe Barbara, which in their toong signifieth to murmur: because the AfricanPAGE 6The originall of the people of Africa.ABout the originall of the Africans, our historiographers doe much disagree. For some will haue them to be derued from the inhabitants of Palaestina; because (as they say) being expelled out of their owne countrie by the Assyrians, they came at length into Africa, & seeing the fruitfulnes of the soile, chose it to be their place of habitation. Others are of opinion, that they tooke their originall from the Sabeans a people of Arabia foelix, and that, before such time as they were put to flight by the Assyrians or Aethiopians, as hath beene aforesaid. Some others report, that the Africans descended from certaine people of Asia, who being chased thence by reason of warres which were waged against them, fled into Greece, which at the same time had no inhabitants at all. Howbeit the enimie still pursuing them, they were forced to crosse the sea of Morea, and being arriued in Africa, to settle themselues there: but their enimies aboad still in Greece. All which opinions and reportes are to bee understood onely of the originall of the tawnie people, that is to say, of the Numidians and Barbarians. For all the Negros or blacke Moores take their descent from Chus, the sonne of Cham, who was the sonne of Noë. But whatsoeuer difference there be betweene the Negros and the tawnie Moores, certaine it is that they had all one beginning. For the Negros are descended of the Philistims, and the Philistims of Mesraim the sonne of Chus: but the tawnie Moores fetch their petigree from the Sabeans, and it is euident that Saba was begotten of Rama, which was the eldest sonne of Chus. Diuers other opinions there be as touching this matter: which because they seeme not so necessarie, wee haue purposely omitted.
In modern English:
All the Negroes or black Moors take their descent from Cush, the son of Ham who was the son of Noah but whatever the difference between the Negros and the tawny Moors, certainly they all had one beginning. The Negros are descended of the Philistines, and the Philistines of Mizraim, the son of Cush but the tawny Moors fetch their pedigree from the Sabeans, and it is evident that Sheba was begotten of Raamah who was the eldest son of Cush. Diverse other opinions touch on this matter but because they seem not so necessary, we have purposely omitted them.PAGE 9 The Negros haue diuers languages among themselues, among which they call one Sungai, and the same is current in many regions; as namely, in Gualata, Tombuto, Ghinea, Melli, and Gago. Another language there is among the Negros, which they cal Guber his is rife among the people of Guber, of Cano, of Casena, of Perzegreg, & of Guangra.Likewise the kingdom of Borno hath a peculiar kinde of speech, altogether like vnto that, which is vsed in Gaoga. And the kingdome of Nube hath a language of great affinitie with the Chaldean, Arabian, & Egyptian toongs. But all the sea towns of Africa fro; the Mediterran sea to the mountains of Atlas, speake broken Arabian. Except the kingdome and towne of Maroco, & the inland Numidians bordering vpon Maroco, Fez, & Tremizen; all which, vse the Barbarian toong. Howbeit they which dwel ouer against Tunis & Tripoli, speake indeede the Arabian language; albeit most corruptly.PAGE 7A diuision of the tawnie Moores into sundrie tribes or nations.The tawnie Moores are diuided into fiue seuerall people or tribes: to wit, the tribes called Zanhagi, Musmudi, Zeneti, Hacari, and Gumeri. The tribe of Musmudi inhabite the westerne part of mount Atlas, from the prouince of Hea to the riuer of Seruan. Likewise they dwell vpon the south part of the said mountaine, and vpon all the inward plaines of that region. These Musmudae haue fower prouinces vnder them: namely, Hea, Sus, Guzula, and the territorie of Marocco. The tribe of Gumeri possesse certaine mountaines of Barbarie, dwelling on the sides of those mountaines which lie ouer against the Mediterran sea: as likewise they are Lords of all the riuer called in their language Rif. This riuer hath his fountaine neere vnto the streites of Gibraltar, and thence runneth eastwards to the kingdome of Tremizen, called by the Latines Caesaria.These two tribes or people haue seuerall habitations by themselues: the other three are dispersed confusiuely ouer all Africa: howbeit they are, like strangers, discerned one from another by certaine properties or tokens, maintaining continuall warre among themselues, especially they of Numidia. These (I say) are those very people (as some report) who had no other places then tents and wide fields to repose themselues in: and it is reported, that in times past they had great conflicts together, and that the vanquished were sent to inhabit townes and cities, but the conquerors held the champions and fieldes vnto themselues, and there setled their aboad. Neither is it altogether vnlikely; because the inhabitants of cities haue all one and the same language with the countrie people. For the Zeneti, whether they dwell in the citie or in the countrie, speake all one kinde of language: which is likewise to be vnderstood of the rest. The tribes of Zeneti, Haoari, and Sanhagi; inhabit the countrie of Temesne: sometimes they liue peaceably, and sometimes againe, calling to minde their ancient quarrels, they breake foorth into cruell warres and manslaughters. Some of these people beare rule ouer all Africa, as namely the Zeneti, who in times past vanquished the familie called Idris; from which some affirme the true and naturall Dukes of Fez, and the founders of the same citie to deriue their petigree: their progenie likewise was called Mecnasa. There came afterward out of Numidia, another familie of the Zeneti called Magraoa: this Magraoa chased the familie of Mecnasa with all their Dukes and chieftaines out of their dominions. Not long after, the said tribe of Magraoa was expelled in like sort by certaine others of the race of the Sanhagij, called by the name of Lumtuna, which came also out of the desert of Numidia.[*Temesne one of the provinces of Fez][ Berber tribes modern spelling:: ṢanhajaMaṣmuda, Zenata/ Maghrawa , Hawwara and Gumara.]PAGE 20Those fiue kindes of people before rehearsed, to wit, the people of Zenega, of Gansiga, of Terga, of Leuta, and of Bardeoa, are called of the Latins Numidae: and they liue all after one manner, that is to say, without all lawe and ciuilitie. Their garment is a narrow and base peece of cloth, wherewith scarce halfe their bodie is couered. Some of them wrap their heads in a kinde of blacke cloth, as it were with a scarfe, such as the Turks vse, which is commonly called a Turbant. Such as will be discerned from the common sort, for geutlemen, weare a iacket made of blew cotton with wide sleeues. And cotton-cloth is brought vnto them by certaine merchants from the land of Negros.PAGE 40Also, the Moores and Arabians inhabiting Libya are somewhat ciuill of behauiour, being plaine dealers, voide of dissimulation, fauourable to strangers, and louers of simplicitie. Those which we before named white, or tawney Moores, are most stedfast in friendship: as likewise |
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Post by thelioness on Oct 20, 2024 17:39:06 GMT -5
^ Hey Anansi, are you able to contact Dana and let her know that ES is down so ES R is where to go? I emailed her about a month ago and haven't gotten a response yet. She has about two emails but she could be busy. I'm trying to recall the last time Dana posted on Egyptsearch. 5 years ago ? |
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Post by archaeologist on Oct 20, 2024 18:03:01 GMT -5
In many cases the painters and sculptors, especially in Northern parts of Europe had no direct clue about how people in North Africa or the Middle East looked like. Few had actually been there. So often they just painted Biblical figures and saints modeled after people they saw around themselves. Thus we have here a Danish St Maurice, and a Jesus from the province of Dalarna. These painters had most probably never been in Egypt or Palestine  St. Maurice in the abbey church at Løgumkloster, Denmark, 14th century  Jesus in a painting from Dalarna in Sweden, 18th century It seems the Saint Maurice statue in Magdeburg were made in the image of a black man first when the ruler Frederick II had participated in the 6th crusade. |
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Post by Brandon S. Pilcher on Oct 20, 2024 19:07:24 GMT -5
I am friends with Dana on Facebook. I could let her know about what happened to ES and invite her to ESR.
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Post by anansi on Oct 20, 2024 20:11:59 GMT -5
Ok I think I can reach her on FB
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Post by thelioness on Oct 21, 2024 11:05:23 GMT -5
Metatron gives his view of who the Moors were You don't have to trust Metatron, Tukuler said separate the wheat from the chaff, there are a lot of interesting references in this video Kulamika dropped this repy to Metatron, remember when I said be careful of what he said, about him being shifty. ^ Hey Anansi, are you able to contact Dana and let her know that ES is down so ES R is where to go? I emailed her about a month ago and haven't gotten a response yet. She has about two emails but she could be busy. Watch if not skim this much longer rebuttal Perhaps the Afrocentrics debating Metatron can add these Coptic Saints as fuel to their fires. You're calling somebody afrocentrist, I'm not sure on what basis |
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Post by djehuti on Oct 21, 2024 12:59:14 GMT -5
Moor might be used for Black people but what should we call the more light skinned Arabs and Berbers (and other lighter complexioned Muslims), like those depicted in the picture below? They seem also to have been called Moors.  Castillian ambassadors attempting to convince Moorish Almohad king Abu Hafs Umar al-Murtada to join their alliance (contemporary depiction from the Cantigas de Santa María). In this book not all Moors are black.
It seems that the Moors in the song book Cantigas de Santa Maria (written in the 13th century) is a rather diverse bunch. But this is rather late, centuries from the initial muslim incursions into the Iberian peninsula. “Infidels”, “traitors” and “that ugly bearded crew”: fear and loathing in the Cantigas de Santa Maria (CSM article 5/6)Of course there was diversity in the Caliphate or Islamic Empire. 'Moor' was originally used for the black Berbers of the Sahara proper but later when Europeans became acquainted with the populations of the Maghreb there came about terms like 'Tawny-Moor' and even 'White-a-Moor' in contrast to the original 'Black-a-Moor'. The same was true with Saracen. Saracens were described as black but later in Medieval times when Balkan countries like Albania and Bosnia became Islamized, the natives of that country were called 'White-Saracens'. Let it be known that the people called 'Arabs' proper were described as no different from (white) Syrians! www.instagram.com/bigchris404/p/C9xh7Jmvf9H/This is why Arabs in literature were described as fair-skinned or white in contrast to the black Saracens, and why it is erroneous to identify Saracens with Arabs. |
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Post by archaeologist on Oct 21, 2024 14:51:03 GMT -5
Yes it seems like the word Saracen have been used in different ways . In Britannica they give a rather short explanation Saracen - BritannicaWikipedia has a rather long article which shows that the use of the term was not uniform over time or between different sources. Among other things the original home of the Saracens seem to have changed some between different sources Saracen - WikipediaSo it seems the the concept underwent a certain shift in meaning over the years. Little like "American", the Swedes in the colony New Sweden actually called the indigenous peoples they met (Lenapes and Susquehannocks) for Americans. The European colonists where instead called Dutch, Englishmen and so on. Today Americans refers to people living in the USA and in wider meaning people from the Americas. American (word) Early geographers view of the Arabian peninsula and adjacent areas |
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Post by thelioness on Oct 21, 2024 15:39:57 GMT -5
www.thoughtco.com/who-were-the-saracens-195413Who Were the Saracens?
By Kallie Szczepanski
Today, the word "Saracen" is mainly associated with the Crusades, a series of bloody European invasions into the Middle East that took place between 1095 and 1291 CE. The European Christian knights who went crusading used the term Saracen to denote their foes in the Holy Land (as well as Muslim civilians who happened to get in their way). Where did this odd-sounding word come from? What does it really mean?
Meaning of "Saracen"
The precise meaning of the word Saracen evolved over time, and which people it was applied to also changed through the ages. To speak very generally, though, it was a term for Middle Eastern people that was used by Europeans from at least late Greek or early Roman times forward.
The word comes into English via the Old French Sarrazin, from the Latin Saracenus, itself derived from the Greek Sarakenos. The origins of the Greek term are unclear, but linguists theorize that it may come from the Arabic sharq meaning "east" or "sunrise," perhaps in the adjective form sharqiy or "eastern."
Late Greek writers such as Ptolemy refer to some of the people of Syria and Iraq as Sarakenoi. The Romans later held them in grudging respect for their military capabilities, but certainly classed them among the "barbarian" peoples of the world. Although we do not know exactly who these people were, the Greeks and Romans distinguished them from the Arabs. In some texts, such as that of Hippolytus, the term seems to refer to the heavy cavalry fighters from Phoenicia, in what is now Lebanon and Syria.
During the early Middle Ages, Europeans lost touch with the outside world to some extent. Nonetheless, they remained aware of Muslim peoples, particularly since the Muslim Moors ruled the Iberian Peninsula. Even as late as the tenth century, though, the word "Saracen" was not necessarily considered the same as "Arab" nor as "Moor" -- the latter specifically designating the North African Muslim Berber and Arab peoples who had conquered much of Spain and Portugal.
Racial Ties
By the later Middle Ages, Europeans used the word "Saracen" as a pejorative term for any Muslim. However, there was also a racial belief current at the time that Saracens were black-skinned. Notwithstanding that, European Muslims from places like Albania, Macedonia, and Chechnya were considered Saracens. (Logic is not a requirement in any racial classification, after all.)
By the time of the Crusades, Europeans were set in their pattern of using the word Saracen to refer to any Muslim. It was considered a disparaging term by this period, as well, stripped of even the grudging admiration that the Romans had bestowed upon the Saracens. This terminology dehumanized the Muslims, which likely helped the European knights to slaughter men, women, and children without mercy during the early Crusades, as they sought to wrest control of the Holy Land away from the "infidels."
The Muslims didn't take this insulting name lying down, however. They had their own none-too-complimentary term for the European invaders, as well. To the Europeans, all Muslims were Saracens. And to the Muslim defenders, all Europeans were Franks (or Frenchmen) -- even if those Europeans were English.
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Post by thelioness on Oct 21, 2024 16:58:23 GMT -5
I could've sworn archaeologist posted on the old ES a quote from a Sasanian Persian letter to the Himyarites in Yemen saying that they had more in common due to being "white" than the Himyarites did with the "black" Aksumites invading them. That doesn't have any bearing on earlier inhabitants of southern Arabia (e.g. the Sabaeans or ancestral South Semites),
by John Leo a Moor born in Granada and brought up in Barbary.
1492-ca. 1550.
the tawnie Moores fetch their petigree from the Sabeans |
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Post by archaeologist on Oct 21, 2024 18:40:54 GMT -5
The quotes about the Axumites being called Ravens is from he "History of al-Tabari" (early 10th century) There one can read (p 238): On page 251 it says: The History of al-Tabari (Vol V)  Tarikh al-Rusul wa al-Muluk (History of the Prophets and Kings),
historical chronicle, often referred to as Tarikh al-Tabari.
Al Tabari
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Post by djehuti on Oct 22, 2024 0:02:11 GMT -5
American (word)Early geographers view of the Arabian peninsula and adjacent areas You make an excellent point about how the meaning or context of words change over time. By the way, the map above is inaccurate. The tripartite division of Arabia by the Greeks was based on geological observation.  ^ The northern part called Petraea maning stony as in stony desert, the central part called Deserta being desert as in sandy desert, the southern part called Felix meaning happy or fertile because it was verdant area watered by the Marib dam. According to the Greeks, Petraea was the home of the Saracens who lived especially in the western area of Petraea and ranged into western Deserta-- the Hejaz. Deserta was home to a people called the Tay and Felix was home to people like the Himyarites and Sabaeans. I explained everything here. The word 'Arab' was originally not an ethnic one but was simply the Semitic word for someone who lived in the wilderness/desert (arabah). Anyone who lived in the desert away from urban areas was known as an 'arab', thus Arabia was the land of wilderness in general. It was only by Roman times that there was an Arab ethnicity largely identified with people living in the eastern part of Petraea around Syria and northern Mesopotamia whose portrayal you see in that mosaic I posted. Clearly this people is very different from the black-skinned Saracens. Also if you notice in the map the 'Arabic' script that is ancestral to Classical Arabic used in Koranic writing is of the northern kind derived from Syriac and NOT the southern kind derived from South Arabian script. Interestingly the latter was what was found in the Hejaz in Mecca and Medina, and I remember reading that the Saracen employed South Arabian letters and symbols not Syriac script used by the Abbasids. |
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Post by archaeologist on Oct 22, 2024 0:32:45 GMT -5
Arabia Petrea was also a Roman political unit, province, from the the second century Provincia Arabia Petraea Ἐπαρχία Πετραίας Ἀραβίας العَرَبِيَّة الصَخْرِيِّة Arabia Petraea Map of Arabia Petraea (from Wiki)The map you posted but in color:  A later interpretation of the geography of Arabia:  A French "Map of the Three Arabias excerpted partly from the Arab of Nubia, partly from several other authors". By Nicolas Sanson, 1654. Deserta is the small green one in the north. The big yellow one is "Yemen".Larger image of the French mapSeems that there sometimes has been a certain confusion on the division of Arabia and where one should place certain geographies "Arabia" in Ancient History |
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Post by archaeologist on Oct 22, 2024 2:45:37 GMT -5
When the old sources talk about black people many automatically conjure up people who look somewhat like African Americans or West Africans. But if we just look at skin color, some peoples in the Arabian peninsula, in the Middle East and of course India many times have similar skin color, even if the facial features are different. I have a friend who worked in Yemen, he says that he saw people who looked more like many other Arabs, relatively light skinned. But there were also people who had rather dark skin, like Africans. A curious detail was that he saw many Yemenite Jews who had red hair.  Yemenite Jew When it comes to ancient Yemenites from Himayarite kingdom we have some depictions. Here is a Himayarite king from c 180 AD  One can wonder how the ancient Saracens looked like. Still today there are people in parts of the Middle East who probably would be described as Black.  Comparison: A Negev Bedouin and Will Smith |
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