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Post by djoser-xyyman on Nov 11, 2013 19:47:43 GMT -5
For the newbies to summarize:
1. What they are trying to work out in last paragraph is determine the y-DNA haplogroup that spread the derived SLC24A5 throughout Eurasia. They could not, so they concluded it occurred BEFORE AMH left Africa…just as Shriver concluded. Why? Because all SSA groups including the San and pygmies carry the derived SLC24A5. BTW “resequencing” means they repeated the tests. Seems like they did not trust the initial results. LOL! But they got the exact same result. LOL!
2. Derived SLC24A5(rs1426654-A allele) although has higher frequency in Europe and S Asia the diversity, meaning age, is higher in Africa and East Asia. The “underived/ancestral” is found mostly in Africa and East Asia. However the derived is also found there.
3. SSA groups like the Bantu, San and Pygmy have the most amount of “novel allele” of the derived SLC24A5. More than Europe and Asia combined!!!!! What is fascinating is the two oldest population in Africa carry the derived SLC24A5!!! Proving yet again light skin is ancestral.
4. Even the cherished and worshiped white skin is NOT European but African in origin. It is because of blackness we became human.
5. What is interesting also is the Tunisian/Mazabs, Negev Bedouins groups with the highest percentage of SSA African Haplogroups have a higher frequency of SLC24A5.
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Nov 11, 2013 19:48:39 GMT -5
I repeat .....Europe is a genetic and geographic sub-set of Africa
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Nov 11, 2013 20:17:09 GMT -5
I hope everyone understands this....
QUOTE:
We conclude that all of the 73 phased chromosomes (from Europe, sub-Saharan Africa, Middle East, South Asia, North and Central Asia) with the rs1426654-A allele form a monophyletic group because they share the same haplotype background REGARDLESS of their geographic origin. In other words, *****ALL***** carriers of the mutation in our global sample share it by descent. THE PRESENCE OF THE DERIVED A ALLELE IN SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA, ****ALTHOUGH ****IN LOW FREQUENCIES (2/73 - ONE HETEROZYGOUS MANDEKA AND ONE HETEROZYGOUS SAN INDIVIDUAL) (FIGURE S3) IS CONSISTENT WITH EARLIER FINDINGS [32].
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Nov 11, 2013 20:20:20 GMT -5
The title of the study should be ..the African origin of white skin...slc24A5. Typical European games with misleading title.
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Post by herodotus on Nov 12, 2013 6:32:41 GMT -5
What are we talking about here? Derived SLC24A5 keeps getting confused with SLC45A2.
SLC45A2 is absent in Sub-Saharan Africans. SLC24A5 is present in Sub-Saharan Africans but very low frequency.
The appearance of SLC24A5 (rs1426654) in Africa is the product of recent gene flow with Europeans -
"The non-African component, which includes the SLC24A5 allele associated with light skin pigmentation in Europeans, may represent gene flow into Africa, which we estimate to have occurred ∼3 thousand years ago (kya)." (Pagini et al. 2012)
NONE of these studies are saying white skin originated in Africa. xyyman can't read properly, and quite frankly Shriver who he loves to name-drop would laugh at him if he heard this was what he was thought to be implying.
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Post by herodotus on Nov 12, 2013 6:43:57 GMT -5
Yes - this just confirms it is non-African and entered Africa via gene flow, like the rest of the world - the same for blue eyes. Only a complete imbecile would reverse this and say it was African.
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Post by herodotus on Nov 12, 2013 6:50:46 GMT -5
Shriver/Norton also found 1 individual in Melanesia with derived SLC24A5. According to xyyman it then must have originated in Melanesia!
But seriously, why can't you read these studies in a sensible fashion? Even a layperson can establish the very low frequency equates with gene flow.
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Post by zarahan on Nov 12, 2013 11:48:16 GMT -5
Herodotus says: Light skin is 1 - 14 on the Luschan Scale. Dark skin is 24 - 36. Between these extremes are light/medium brown shades.
There are no Africans with 1 - 14, this range falls outside African diversity.
Wrong actually. The native San in Southern Africa fall within the 1-14 scale. And numerous Europeans fall OUTSIDE any "litmus test" of 1-14 whiteness. Millions of Europeans under the "Luschan litmus" thus are not "white."
And Africa has the highest skin color diversity in any case even if the Luschan had not fallen out of favor as obsolete. As one scholar notes:
"This study examines regional differences in within-population diversity of human skin color. Published data on skin reflectance were collected for 98 male samples from eight geographic regions: sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, Europe, West Asia, Southwest Asia, South Asia, Australasia, and the New World. Regional differences in local within-population diversity were examined using two measures of variability: the sample variance and the sample coefficient of variation. For both measures, the average level of within-population diversity is higher in sub-Saharan Africa than in other geographic regions. This difference persists even after adjusting for a correlation between within-population diversity and distance from the equator. Though affected by natural selection, skin color variation shows the same pattern of higher African diversity as found with other traits." -- Relethford JH.(2000). Human skin color diversity is highest in sub-Saharan African populations. Hum Biol. 72(5):773-80.)
Your claim: "There are no Africans with 1 - 14" is completely inaccurate.
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Post by zarahan on Nov 12, 2013 13:08:08 GMT -5
For the newbies to summarize: 1. What they are trying to work out in last paragraph is determine the y-DNA haplogroup that spread the derived SLC24A5 throughout Eurasia. They could not, so they concluded it occurred BEFORE AMH left Africa…just as Shriver concluded. Why? Because all SSA groups including the San and pygmies carry the derived SLC24A5. BTW “resequencing” means they repeated the tests. Seems like they did not trust the initial results. LOL! But they got the exact same result. LOL! 2. Derived SLC24A5(rs1426654-A allele) although has higher frequency in Europe and S Asia the diversity, meaning age, is higher in Africa and East Asia. The “underived/ancestral” is found mostly in Africa and East Asia. However the derived is also found there. 3. SSA groups like the Bantu, San and Pygmy have the most amount of “novel allele” of the derived SLC24A5. More than Europe and Asia combined!!!!! What is fascinating is the two oldest population in Africa carry the derived SLC24A5!!! Proving yet again light skin is ancestral. 4. Even the cherished and worshiped white skin is NOT European but African in origin. It is because of blackness we became human. 5. What is interesting also is the Tunisian/Mazabs, Negev Bedouins groups with the highest percentage of SSA African Haplogroups have a higher frequency of SLC24A5. Good summary. Keep em coming.
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Post by herodotus on Nov 12, 2013 16:43:32 GMT -5
The Luschan scale is still sometimes used by anthropologists, however it was mostly replaced by reflectance spectrophotometry. Anyway, San are not 1-14, and Europeans don't exceed 14. The scale is only taken under the arm/unexposed part of the body, so it excludes tanning.
Both Luschan and reflectance spectrophotometry refutes your claim San are 1-14:
"A recent and more successful method is to record the light reflected by the skin, tanned and untanned, at different wave lenghts. Because this tells us to a certain extent what the skin does with light, the procedure is functional. J.S. Weiner and his associates have shown that, when measured through a filter at a light level of 6850 angstroms(an angstrom is one ten-millionth of a millimeter), Bushmen skin reflects 43% of light, as compared to 24% in the case of Yoruba Negroes in Nigeria, and 64% in the case of Europeans. In other words, black Negro skin absorbs 76% of light; yellowish Bushmen skin absorbs 56%; and untanned Europeans 36%. And in many Europeans the absorption is even less. The difference of 40% between Yorubas and Europeans may be the greatest in the world. Although we have no comparable data on the reflection of light By Mongoloid skin, it is probably near the figure for Bushmen." (Coon, 1965)
Jablonski (2000) contains reflectance spectrophotometry results of San and Europeans:
South Africa (San Central) 43·75 United Kingdom (Cumberland) (NH) 66·75 United Kingdom (Wales) (NH) 65·00 Ireland (Rossmore) (NH) 64·75 Spain (Leon) (NH) 64·66
So while Bushmen pigmentation reflects 43-44% of light, European reflects 64-66%.
As you can see, Bushmen fall between Europeans and Yoruba ("Negroes"). They are lighter brown skinned, but not white like Europeans.
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Nov 12, 2013 18:16:05 GMT -5
Busy right now . .......
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Nov 12, 2013 18:17:42 GMT -5
Dude, you need to make up your mind on what your argument is. First you argued that Africans do not carry derived SLC45A2 which is the so called “white gene”. I debunked that nonsense showing that Africans carry the derived AND underived SLC45A2. Derived at about 25%. Again proving you are at a lost with this stuff. You are all style and no substance , classic Euronut trickery with strawman argument.
I told you that SLC24A5 has greater impact than SLC45A2 on skin pigmentation and now you are on the SLC24A5 bandwagon. I debunked your nonsense that Africans cannot carry blues eyes without European intervention. In fact I am at a lost now on what EXACTLY is you argument. I am still waiting on that “uncle”, before we continue.
It seems like you are arguing that I am saying that “Europeans are not white”. That is a strawman. Are you that stupid. I told you stop wasting my time. This is your last warning I never came across a racialist smarter than me. You do know the difference between a racist and racialist
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Nov 12, 2013 20:16:07 GMT -5
To those who are following the discussion……
So what do we have here?. Now it is outright lies. You(H) have moved from tricks, misdirection and strawman argument to outright lies.
We started on SLC45A2, you saying Africans do NOT carry the derived. I proved you wrong, Africans carry the derived AND ancestral SLC45A2. Derived at 25%.
You then switched to SLC24A2 when I told you that you MAY have a better argument with SLC24A2 since it has a greater impact than SLC45A2 on skin pigmentation. But, guess what, you are WRONG with that also.
You are NOT faring very well my man. 0-2. Infact 0-3 including blue eyes. TYRP1 (Ch9p23
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Nov 12, 2013 20:23:53 GMT -5
Here goes.. baaaammmm!! pic spam!!!!!!! For those who cannot read and understand. Fresh off the press. Nov2013. Brand spanking SLC24A5 in pygmies and SAN. Do you know what “novel” means and the significance in genetic studies? I take it you are not reading these recent studies but keep referencing out dated stuff. Typical delusional lying European. OHHH!! to the newbies -rs1426654-A is the derived SLC24A5!!!
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Nov 12, 2013 20:24:59 GMT -5
My bad!, you are right. Nigerians are 10% Europeans, San are 7% European, Senegalese are almost ¼(23%) European and Sudanese are 2% European. And the Pygmies 3% European. Even more than the Sudanese. Man, You are a genius. Yet the Africans carry the most diverse and novel allele of derived SLC24A5
In the words of Shriver quote: "These results suggest that an APBA2 (OCA2) mutation conferring light skin arose BEFORE the spread of humans out of Africa,....."
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