Kemetian Sudanese and Inner African Connections thread

[clouddesignc7]

What I mean by "Sudanese" is areas South of Ancient Egypt starting just outside Ancient Egypt.

This is a thread about Ancient Egypt's connections to Sudan / Nehhesu / Kush / areas South of Egypt, and also its connections to inner Africa / sub-Saharan Africa.

There have been many many many connections between inner Africa (mainly East Africa, Ethiopia and the Horn) and Ancient Egypt, I just don't remember them clearly as it was a grip ago I heard them.

They claimed to have been a colony or something sent out by Punt (which was located somewhere around Northern Ethiopia and the Horn). I think I heard there were plenty of Dynasties from Punt/Pwanit, like Dynasty after Dynasty I recall hearing was from Punt.

So this is the Ancient Egypt, Sudan and more inland Africa thread. DNA studies on Chad would also be good. All evidence, DNA, historical and other evidence fine. Egyptian Art of Puntites, or with Puntites in it, would also be good.

Post it even if you can't remember the source, it'll be accepted

[clouddesignc7]

Any thoughts? ..

[clouddesignc7]

This is a related thread:

West Africa Kemet connections

[clouddesignc7]

Djehuti said:

Brilliant insights, Doug!

You bring up many great points about the 'Nubian' origins of the 12th Dynasty.


What about the 18th Dynasty?? I have heard theories from some Egyptologists that they too are of 'Nubian' descent. The 18th Dynasty of Waset (Thebes) was begotten from the 17th dynasty which was said to hail from southern Upper Egypt. The 17th Dynasty king Sekenenra Tao and his family were said to have close ties to the Medjay nomads, and James Harris in his examination of Sekenenra's skull claimed that his facial complex looked 'Nubian'. Also, it was in the 17th-18th dynasties that we see the rise of the importance of the queen-mother which was said to be a 'Nubian' custom. With all of this in mind we can see how the rise of the 18th dynasty also fulfilled the prophecy of Neferti-- a king from the south by a Nubian woman who would vanquish the Asiatics.

Wally is correct that every time there is chaos and instability in the Kemeta nation, there would be a king from southern Upper Egypt usually with maternal Nubian ancestry that would assume the throne and restore order.

If the prophecy of Neferti was indeed created around the time of the 12th dynasty, do you find it coincidence that it was fulfilled later on?..

[clouddesignc7]

Obelisk 18 said:

And why does Amun necessarily have to be a nubian god?

We have to remember that during to time of Ancient Egypt, there were no "Nubians", it had nothing to do with blackness originally

it was a Roman word used to describe people near the city of "Nub". Romans started calling people that and that people started calling people that.

So it's a word Eurocentrists use to segregate Negro reservation people away from Egypt / Kemet, a false word that never existed during Ancient times.

[clouddesignc7]

12th Dynasty a Nubian Dynasty:

Doug M said:

Lately, I have been doing much searching into the so-called history of "Nubia" and Egypt and I came across a fundamental fact of history that MOST Egyptologists overlook or just OMIT outright.

Often we speak of the prophecy of Neferti and the importance of the South against the Asiatics. We also speak of the fact that the saviour is from Ta Seti, Land of the Bow, OFTEN called Nubia by Egyptologists since it extended PAST the first cataract during much of Egypt's history. And because of the arbitrary nature of the Egyptologists definition of Nubia, these people are called Nubians.

Anyway, looking at the 12th Dynasty, it is started by Amenhemhat I. He is a NON royal person, ie not related to the previous royal line. The prophecies of Neferti were WRITTEN during the period of Amenhemhat's reign and the hero of the story Ameny is supposedly Amenhemhat himself. Amenhemhat was BORN in Elaphantine, the capital of Ta Seti, by some reports. Therefore, that makes him a Nubian, since Ta Seti extended WAY past the first cataract at that time. But that is just ONE clue.

As I said, I believe that what happened after the F.I.P is that there was STILL a bunch of rebellious princes in Lower Egypt, Upper Egypt AND Ta Seti. Ta Seti was given the same official treatment as Upper and Lower Egypt, since at this time it was almost as big as upper or lower Egypt, stretching almost to the 2nd cataract. The 11th dynasty took power and REUNIFIED the country with the help of the "Nubian" bowmen, who were FROM Ta Seti, Land of the Bow, NOT Nubia. Keep this in the back of your mind bow=bowmen=ta seti....

touregypt.net/elephantine.htm

Anyway, even though Montuhotep II reunified the country, there were STILL many princes in Thebes and elsewhere who were contending for power in Egypt. Towards the end of the 11th dynasty, there were various co-regents and kings located in "Ta Seti" (called Nubia), showing that there were many people from Ta Seti who were NOT happy with the situation in the Kingdom THEY SAVED!! I think that Montuhotep II tried to placate the bowmen (the same "Nubian" Archers seen all over), by marrying a woman from Ta Seti as some sort of sign of "special" significance. However, I dont think the kings of the south RECOGNIZED this as being meaningful and WANTED MORE. At the end of the 11th dynasty, there are two versions of what happened. Either Amenhemhat, who was a general under Montuhotep, USURPED the throne of MOntuhotep IV OR he was CO-REGENT (a co-reigning king from Ta-Seti). Either way, he was NOT from the royal line of the Montuhotep clan. Now, according to Egyptologists, these Nubian archers and others who were so prominent during the 11th dynasty were just bit players in Egypt's history.... Well, I believe that is NONSENSE. You cannot understand what happened in the 12th dynasty unless you understand what was happening in the South.

Clayton, 1994, p85, tells us that Senusret III (c1878-1841BC) established a separate administration for the Head of the South (Elephantine and Lower Nubia) administered, like Upper and Lower Egypt, by a council of senior staff reporting to a vizier. Obviously great importance was placed on Lower Nubia at this time. A canal was rebuilt around the First Cataract at Aswan enabling easier access for troops and trading vessels to reach as far as Buhen and the Second Cataract. Goods from Upper Nubia and beyond were moved by boat on the Nile. These included ebony, ivory, spices, exotic fruit, live animals and skins. There were mines for gold, diorite and gneiss in the area (Manley, 1996, p19)

from www.yare.org/essays/fortresses.htm

Amenhemhat is also signifigant because of another reason. HE and his descendants were the FIRST to make AMUN the state god at Karnak. It is during THIS time that Gebel Arkal was part of Egypt's southern territories and the worship of Amun ORIGINATED there. But dont expect Egyptologists to make that connection. As a matter of fact, did you know that Amenhemhat I was said to have sailed South to the ends of the Earth past KUSH? The first references to Kush, HOME of Amun are during his reign. Therefore, there should be NO QUESTION that THIS is when Amun was first seen and identified with the throne and the rulership of the two lands BECAUSE of the connection of the pharoahs to the SOUTH.

www.touregypt.net/featurestories/amenemhet1.htm
Note how they speculate he was the son of a PRIEST at Karnak and woman from Ta Seti, else why write the prophecy of Neferti?

Read this page CAREFULLY and understand that MANY things are revealed here, but the Egyptologists prefer NOT to make the OBVIOUS connections:
touregypt.net/hdyn12.htm

Another thing to note is that Senwosret III is venerated as a GOD in lower Sudan. Why? Why are these pharoahs who were SO active in Sudan venerated? What was the TRUE nature of their activities in the South and are the Egyptologists OVER emphasizing RACIAL and ETHNIC tensions over political tensions? I believe that the 11th and 12th dynasties were part of a campaign of civil strife in Egypt that kings to be assassinated and thrones usurped, with MANY of the USURPERS coming from the South. THIS is what brought Amun to Karnak, where he probably already was, but in a lesser role. However, seeing that these people were from the South were the worship of Amun was prominent in Sudan, it would make sense for them to make him the STATE god, symbolizing the role the SOUTH (I mean DEEP SOUTH) had in REUNIFYING the country.

More on Kush Egypt:

The sculptors of Kush displayed a striking propensity for catching individual expressions and feelings underneath the stylized masks. The admirable "block statue" of the scribe Amenemhat with his knees drawn up before him looks Egyptian at first glance. Then, viewers become aware of the asymmetrical eyes, and the vicious glee that the smiling face conveys. William Davies, keeper of Ancient Egypt and Sudan at the British Museum, points out that Amenemhat, despite his Egyptian name, is known to have been a Nubian, a "member of an elite indigenous family from Teh-Khet (the modern region of Debeira and Serra), traceable over several generations, who were thoroughly 'Egyptianized' and governed their regions on behalf of the imperial administration."

The funny thing is that they call these guys "Egyptianized" without realizing WHY they called this area Teh Khet(Ta Khent) in the first place. Ta Khent means LAND OF THE BEGINNINGS/FOUNDERS. They ORIGINATED the Egyptian style in MANY ways.
The page also notes how SPECIAL the relationship was between Ta Khent and Egypt, since these people were taken to Memphish for Education. You dont DO THAT for SUBJECTS or VASSALS. Therefore, Ta Khent/Ta Seti was MORE than a subject vassal state. However, if only looked at through the biased eyes of Egyptologists as "Nubians" you wont SEE that fact.

That the Egyptian role was important during the Old Kingdom (2686 to 2181 B.C.) is perfectly clear. Dominique Valbelle writes in the exhibition book that the Nubian princes were brought to Memphis to receive an Egyptian education. From that time on, the Egyptian connection would never be severed, even when the pendulum of political power abruptly swung.

This shows how POWERFUL the kings/princes of Ta Seti were and how they were able to stage the RESURGENCE of Egypt's culture on a REGULAR basis. They were not subjects of Egypt in ANY sense of the word.

More 12th dynasty:
www.narmer.pl/dyn/12en.htm

Even MOST Egyptologists acknowledge that Amenhemhat was from Ta Seti/Ta Khent (so called "Nubia") but how come they dont call THAT dynasty Nubian?

[/p][/p]

[clouddesignc7]

Knowledgeiskey718 said:

Petrie, W.M.F., The Making of Egypt, London. New York, Sheldon Press; Macmillan, 1939

Page 155:

"The Nubian Mixture: The later Hyksos were obviously decadent, and at last an invasion from the south threw them back northward and established a black queen as the divine ancestress of the 18th dynasty. Thus again a southern people reanimated Egypt, like the Sudani 3rd dynasty and the Galla 12th dynasty."


Details of the state of the country come from the 'Prophecy of Neferti' , a text said to date from the Old Kingdom which relates how a king 'Ameny' would come to save the country!

Then a king will come from the South, Ameny, the justified, my name, Son of a woman of Ta-Seti, child of Upper Egypt, He will take the white crown, he will join the Two Mighty Ones (the two crowns) Asiatics will fall to his sword, Libyans will fall to his flame, Rebels to his wrath, traitors to his might, As the serpent on his brow subdues the rebels for him, One will build the Walls-of-the-Ruler, To bar Asiatics from entering Egypt . .


The 12th dynasty was due to the emergence of a ruling family from Nubia -- (Petrie, 1939, p. 176)

[clouddesignc7]

alTakruri said:

Kesh was intertwined with Kmt as both shared a joint ethnic
origin in prehistory. For the Kmtyw, Amami, the ancestral Godland was to
the south and Kesh stood in between. Because of an especially holy site
at the 4th cataract a few individual Nhsyw families had a certain claim to
rulership over all Ta Akht.

What to some may seem very ironic is that the name Senwosret comes
from the Uahka family. This Theban family can be traced back to the 6th
dynasty. At that time they were architects who built temples near Abydos
at Qua. That the Uahka were of Nhsyw origins us attested by their burial
tombs. The design is unknown in Kmt but common in Kesh. The pharaoh
of the famous conquest stele labeling Nhsyw cowards yet fearful of them
taking over the land bit by bit was Senwosret III himself of Nhsy ancestry!

But which ethny of Nehesi in particular?

Petrie thought the 12th dynasty was founded by Galla. I don't know if
he means the Oromo or if he means the Shangalla.

The Galla Penetration. It has long ago been remarked that the black sphinxes,
later appropriated by the Hyksos, approximated to the Galla type of Abyssinia.

. . . .

This starts an enquiry how the Galla connection could thus appear on monuments.
In the clearance and planning of the rock tombs at Qau, Antaeopolis, the peculiar
plan of those tombs, with great halls and small chambers annexed, was observed
to be closely parallel to that of later Nubian temples. In both tomb and temple
the chief work is in the solid rock, while the forecourt is of masonry constructed
in front of it. Another peculiarity was the hammer-work excavation of one tomb,
which had evidently been done with stone balls, as in the Aswan granite working,
and this implies a southern connection.

. . . .

Ancestry of Senusert. In the tomb of prince Uah-ka B at Qau, in an inner chamber,
is painted a scene of the son of Uah-ka, named Senusert; there is no cartouche.
As the Uah-ka family were of about the 4th or 5th dynasty (the name being unknown
either in the 11th of the 12th dynasty), this implies that the 12th dynasty Senusert
family descended from the Uah-ka family. Here we have, then, a link between the Galla
type on the sphinxes and the 12th dynasty. The separate identification of these sphinxes
follows further on. The 12th dynasty was undoubtedly descended from Amenemhat, the great
vizier of the 11th dynasty. It seems, then, that he married the heiress of the Uah-ka
family, as stated in the pseudo-prophecy, "A king shall come from the south whose name
is Ameny, son of a Nubian woman." She called her son by the family name Senusert, and he
was the founder of the 12th dynasty, according to Manetho. Waka is the god of the Gallas.

The Uahka werent the only family nor the 12th the only dynasty of Nhsw
influence from origins in Kesh.


There was an intimate if exploitive sibling relationship between T3Wy and
Kesh. Brothers veigh for dominance one over the other yet they remain
the same family. Still there are differences between even identical twin
brothers. Egypt embraced writing while Kesh eschewed it for the longest
time and Egypt did rank Kesh among the Nine Bows clear until late
New Kingdom times.

The important thing to remember is that certain Keshite families
always, since the foundation of the Dynastic period, had a right to
the throne of T3Wy because of their noble status in Gebel Barkal
the prime residence of Amun the father of legitimacy to rulership.

Gebel Barkal was way up south at the fourth cataract. Yet it was the
seat of Amun and pharoanic legitimacy. Among others too numerous to list

[*]Zanakht of dynatsy 3 was a Nehasi
[*]the 4th dynasty queen Khentkaues was of Ta Seti and she birthed the
first two kings of the 5th dynasty
[*]the Uakha family established the 12th dynasty
[*]Senwosret or Sesostris was a common Uakha name
[*]the name Amenhotep or Amememhet shows the Uakha connection to Amun and Gebel Barkal
[*]Amenemhet I was vizier for Mentuhotep IV of the preceding 11th dynasty, his ancestry of and marrige in the Uakha family legitimized his natural right to the throne
[*]the 14th dyanastys second ruler was actually named Nehesi and honored his mother Peret incorporating her name in his cartouche




The kings of Kush were known to have a certain claim on Kmt's throne. Zanakht of the
3rd dynasty has strong Nhsw facial features. His line apparently died out. The 9th and
10th dynasty Uahka family of Thebes were buried in tombs of type unknown in Kmt but
of design in Kush. The Uahka family has been traced back to the 6th dynasty builders
of the temples at Qua near Abydos. Senusret is a name from the Uahka family, one of
whose members took on the name Amenemhet to honor Amen the major deity of
Thebes. This family established the 12th dynasty. Comparison of skull measurements
reveals an exceedingly close relationship between the Uahka family and the modern
Shangalla (non-Abyssinian) type of Ethiopian bordering Sudan.

Amenemhet I warred against Wawat pushing south far enough to establish a center of
trade in Kerma at the 3rd catarct. Senusret I mentions the Akherkin, Kas, Khesaa, Shat,
and Shemyk among the peoples of Wawat that he subdued. Senwosret III annexed
Wawat up to the 2nd cataract as the southern border of Kmt.

Because of their propensities for independence the Senwosrets found it necessary to
wage war against Wawat. On their defeat a string of fortresses were built. These were at
Buhen, Kor, Dorginarti, Mirgissa, Dabenarti, Askut, Shalfak, Uronarti, Kumma, and Semna.


Nonetheless the kinship between the peoples of the lower and middle Nile Valleys
must not be forgotten. Especially of note is the middle Nile Valley dwellers' attitude
as to the status of the lower Nile Valley.



... the Egyptian pharaohs of Dynasty 18 had recognized Gebel Barkal as
an ancient source of Egyptian kingship and had themselves crowned there
to affirm their rule, the new kings of Kush rediscovered this tradition and
[] used it to prove their right to rule Egypt. Since the first to recognize
the religious significance of Gebel Barkal had been the Pharoah Thutmose
III[.]

. . . .

If [Keshites] have traditionally been portrayed by historians s "foreigners"
in Egypt, they surely did not see themselves as such, despite their
different ethnic, cultural and linguistic origin. In their minds Egypt and
Kush were northern and southern halves of an ancient original domain of
Amun. These two lands, they believed, had been united in mythological
times; subsequently they grew apart, to be united again in historical times
only by the greatest pharaohs. As "sons" of Amun, the Napatan monarchs
saw themselves as heirs of those pharaohs [. . .] believ[ing] they were
the god's representatives - from his southern sphere - chosen to unite
and protect his ancient empire and to restore ma'at - "truth, order, and
propriety" in the Egyptian sense - throughout the land.

It all boils down to cultural spirituality and the "kingship" deity
of the matured middle and lower Nile valley in the days of empire
that had been perculating since before either kingdom emerged.

I think that Gebel Barka was known to the A Group originators of the
royalty concept of dynasty 0 and possibly the first attempts of state
unification (judging by the finds of Qustul). I imagine the reason that
certain NHHSYW females endowed their husbands or sons with a
natural and undisputed right to the throne of T3Wy was because they
hailed from the right family from Gebel Barkal of old from before the
times of dynastic Egypt, and here's why:



... long before the Egyptians had set eyes on Gebel Barkal, the Nubians,
too, had held it sacred. Although no pre-Egyptian settlement or cultic
remains have yet been found there, unstratified Nubian pottery has been
recovered, dating from the Neolithic, Pre-Kerma, and Kerma periods. This
indicates that the site must have been occupied at least since the fourth
millennium BC. The discovery on the summit of Gebel Barkal of
thousands of chipped stone wasters, made of types of stones that can
only be found on the desert floor, suggests that people brought stones to
the summit to work them, a practice that implies a religious motivation.
Likewise, the similarity between the sanctuary at Barkal, as it appeared in
the Egyptian and Kushite periods, and that of Kerma, as it appeared at
the end of the Classic Kerma phase, may suggest that there was a pre-
Egyptian cultic connection between Gebel Barkal and the "Western
Deffufa" at Kerma. There exists at least the possibility that the latter, a
rectangular, brick built, mountain-like platform 19 m high, may have been
built at Kerma as a magical substitute or "double" of Gebel Barkal. After
all, complexes of temples were built in front of each, and each was
conceived as the dwelling place of a powerful god.

There is no doubt that the Egyptians, and probably, too, the earlier
Nubians, attached sacred significance to Gebel Barkal because of its
bizarre form. Not only was the hill isolated on a flat desert plain and
possessed of a spectacular cliff, 90 m high and 200 m long, its
southwestern corner was marked by an enormous free-standing pinnacle
. This monolith had all the appearance of a statue,
but without precise form, and it could be imagined in many ways
simultaneously. On the one hand, it could be seen as the figure of a
standing king or god, wearing the White Crown. It could be seen as an
erect phallus. It could also be seen as a rearing cobra (uraeus), wearing
the White Crown. Ancient documents, both written and pictorial, reveal
that the rock was imagined as all these things at once and was thus
venerated as the source of the divine power of all the various things it
represented. As a crowned human figure, it would have represented the
living king or the ultimate royal ancestor, or the god himself. As a phallus,
it would have represented Amun as father and procreator. As uraeus, it
would have represented each and every goddess and all female creative
power. It was thus father, mother, and royal child combined as one -
which was apparently the very meaning of "Kamutef." Gebel Barkal, by
means of the phallic-shaped pinnacle, not only confirmed the presence of
Amun, it also had precisely the form of the Primeval Hill of Egyptian
tradition, on which the Creator was thought to have appeared at the
beginning of time and generated the first gods through an act of
masturbation.


So as early as dynasty 3 Zanakht sits the throne.

4th dynasty queen Khentkaues births the first kings of the 5th dynasty.

In the 6th dynasty the Uahka family is building NHHSY architected tombs in T3Wy

The 12th dynasty is established by the Uahka family and kings bear the name
of Amun in their own names just as Keshite kings will bear Amani names.

To my mind this shows a pre-18th dynasty affiliation of Amun among the
NHHSYW most likely associated with Gebel Barkal. Where else would the
prominence of Amun stem from that it was not used in T3Wy in kings' names
before introduced by a dynasty of NHHSY roots?

Yet, some have still proposed Amun to have travelled in the reverse direction.
from
ERNEST A. WALLIS BUDGE
TUTANKHAMEN AMENISM, ATENISM AND EGYPTIAN MONOTHEISM
New York: Dodd, Mead & Co. 1923
Chap 2 TUTANKHAMEN AND THE CULT OF AMEN
www.sacred-texts.com/egy/tut/tut05.htm




THE early history of the god Amen is somewhat obscure, and his origin is
unknown. The name Amen means "hidden (one)," a title which might be
applied to many gods. A god Amen and his consort Ament or Amenit are
mentioned in the Pyramid Texts (UNAS, line 558), where they are
grouped with Nau and Nen, and with the two Lion gods Shu and Tefnut.
This Amen was regarded as an ancient nature-god by the priests of
Heliopolis under the Vth dynasty, and it is possible that many of his
attributes were transferred at a very early period to Amen, the great god
of Thebes. Though recent excavations have shown that a cult of Amen
existed at Thebes under the Ancient Empire, it is doubtful if it possessed
any more than a local importance until the XIIth dynasty. When the
princes of Thebes conquered their rivals in the north and obtained the
sovereignty of Egypt, their god Amen and his priesthood became a great
power in the land, and an entirely new temple was built by them, in his
honour, at Karnak on the right bank of the Nile. The temple was quite
small, and resembled in form and arrangement some of the small Nubian
temples; it consisted of a shrine, with a few small chambers grouped
about it, and a forecourt, with a colonnade on two sides of it. Amen was
not the oldest god worshipped there, and his sanctuary seems to have
absorbed the shrine of the ancient goddess Apit. ...

Although the kings of the XIIth dynasty were Thebans it is possible that
they and many of their finest warriors had Sudani blood in their veins,
and the attributes that they ascribed to Amen were similar to those that
the Nubian peoples assigned to their indigenous gods. To them Amen
symbolized the hidden but irresistible power that produces conception and
growth in human beings and in the animal and vegetable worlds. And in
some places in Egypt, and Nubia and the Oases, the symbol of the god
Amen was either the umbilicus 1 or the gravid womb. The symbol of
Amen that was shown to Alexander the Great, when he visited the temple
of Jupiter Ammon in the Oasis of Siwah, was an object closely resembling
the umbilicus, and it was inlaid with emeralds (turquoises?) and other
precious stones--umbilico maxime similis est habitus, smaragdo et
gemmis coagmentatus.


Despite the fact of the relative obscurity of Amen before the Uahka
family's 12th dynasty boosting of his importance and the "Nubian" style
temple devoted to him, the author of the above states that Egypt carrried
Amun into "Nubia."

But that shouldn't be the last word and prime thought left in mind by this
post.

While Egyptians did in fact rule over Wawat and even Kush, no Egyptian ever
sat astride the throne of Kush. To the contrary Kushites sat on the Amun
Seat both in Kush and in Egypt and their empire extended over more Nile and
Rift valleys territory than perhaps even did Egypt.


Culled from previous posts

www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=001060#000003

www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=001310#000019

www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=004986;p=1

[clouddesignc7]

We should really look to Egyptsearch..

[clouddesignc7]

good stuff...

[clouddesignc7]

So all we have on that Punt Dynasty thing is speculation (from an Egyptologist).

Like a line (one sentence) of speculation.

I thought I recalled there being more on this (Punt Dynasty -- thought there was atleast one),

...

maybe unless ... it wasn't the 12th Dynasty ...

[clouddesignc7]

So why'd Petrie say this,

what is he basing it on,

is there more??

[clouddesignc7]

Sept 22, 2016 10:18:17 GMT -5 clouddesignc7 said:

There have been many many many connections between inner Africa (mainly East Africa, Ethiopia and the Horn) and Ancient Egypt, I just don't remember them clearly as it was a grip ago I heard them.

They claimed to have been a colony or something sent out by Punt (which was located somewhere around Northern Ethiopia and the Horn). I think I heard there were plenty of Dynasties from Punt/Pwanit, like Dynasty after Dynasty I recall hearing was from Punt.

Oh, I think what I recalled was Dynasty after Dynasty being from the South, and one being from Punt.

So yeah, this (above posts) is it, this is what I recalled.