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Post by thamm1 on Mar 27, 2016 21:03:39 GMT -5
Caucasian is a loose term that is still used both politically and scientifically. But I would agree that it is not definitive of race if you use skin color as a basis. This is because many of the dark skinned African races of the east which you Afrocentrist try to claim or actually scientifically Caucasoid. This includes essentially most of the horn of Africa some of the peoples just crossed the Red Sea in Arabia
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Post by thamm1 on Mar 27, 2016 21:02:55 GMT -5
All of Africa is not black that is the reality since before written history. The north African phenotype has existed before Egypt. The north African phenotype is the progenitor of all light-skinned people. Which for that matter outnumber black Africans globally. This is indicative of how ancient these light-skinned people's are.
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Post by thamm1 on Mar 27, 2016 21:02:09 GMT -5
Please bear in mind that Africa is so large that almost all other countries can fit inside it's landmass as Africa is not accurately depicted in scale on modern maps. So all the races throughout all the world can fit back in the continent of Africa. Couple this with the fact that Africa as a continent is the most genetically diverse and all of the world you need to understand that light-skinned people's are indigenous and evolved in Northern Africa. Additionally these northern African have been depicted since ancient times in art. So I also submit to you for your review evidence of the light-skinned North Africa. youtu.be/HUNh_sUI8-k
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Post by thamm1 on Mar 27, 2016 21:01:38 GMT -5
So is this black man trying to whitewash history? Or is it probable that he is simply a scientist going where the data leads him even though he has his own personal agenda about being black African?
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Post by thamm1 on Mar 27, 2016 21:00:16 GMT -5
European converts to Islam were ALSO called "Moors".
That is exactly true however most southern Europeans in Spain were of Iberian tribal stock and the Iberians as opposed to the Celts in northern Spain came from the Etruscans who came from Turkey who came from the near East who came from north Africa belong to the same group of E1B1B1. So essentially ancient Iberians are North African
But there were many northern Europeans who did convert during those seven centuries
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Post by thamm1 on Mar 27, 2016 20:58:22 GMT -5
This is science not white supremacy not black supremacy science science must be verifiable independent of personal opinion or agenda by multiple parties. Quoting all of that propaganda that started in the 60s with the back to Africa movement/black supremacy movement black power political agenda propaganda is not science. Soli trying to determine want to race based off of morphological features is also not science and most of those suppose it pseudoscience practices have been debunked. Pointing at unpainted sculptures my Julia chips and painted all their art is also not one way to determine someone's skin color in ancient times. Now there was a Nubian period in Egypt it was the 25th dynasty. It lasted for about 75 years and the Egyptians revolted and threw them out of the country. There were historical ties between Nubia and Egypt but in ancient times old kingdom and predynastic Egypt Nubia was the historical enemy of Egypt. Honestly all of this could be sorted out with a few trips to the public library. Stop assuming that all Egyptologist or white and have a Eurocentric agenda. That is a racially ignorant comment scientists are not compelled by your geopolitical racial politics. Most scientists came to seek the truth and will revise their opinions when Data presents itself. So even if all Egyptians were black which is not the case. Your ancestors from west Africa are not genetically related to them by any stretch of the imagination. Additionally the Moore's of Spain were also not sub-Saharan Africans what did employ substanc your ancestors from west Africa are not genetically related to them by any stretch of the imagination. Additionally the moors of Spain were also not sub-Saharan Africans what did employ Black Africans as servants and soldiers. But if they did not convert to Islam the black Africans were sold into slavery. This is the fact often you hear these whacked out fraudsters say things like blackamoor. Well let's consider that word for a moment do you see how they're adding the word black? That's because the other Moor were not black. The Moors get their names from a Berber tribe who are brown to olive tonned like all southern Europeans who belong from the same master Haplogroup as displayed in the chart you reposted.
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Post by thamm1 on Mar 27, 2016 20:57:05 GMT -5
Just to further emphasize the point and again take the time to read this don't just ignore it because the evil white man posted something you don't want to hear. If you truly care about the subject matter than educate yourself. There has been African input in parts of Egypt during certain times but the overwhelming genetic reality and historical fact is that Egyptians have not been altered racially very much from their inception.
Here is a well renowned black professor with an expertise in genetics in ancient Egypt he essentially states that modern Egyptians are the same as their ancient counterparts genetically speaking.
"Human Biology By GeoPedia Expertver. 5 - Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 12:22:49 PM By S. O. Y. Keita, Senior Research Associate, National Human Genome Center, Howard University; Research Associate, Anthropology, Smithsonian Institute
Based on fossil and DNA evidence, modern humans may have existed in Africa as many as 140,000 years before they successfully colonized other parts of the world. Considering this from an evolutionary perspective, we should expect great diversity among indigenous Africans, and this is what has been found, even when northern African populations have been excluded from the research. All human populations exhibit biological variation in one way or another, and there is no single way to be biologically African—not by DNA, skin color, hair form, blood type, or variation of face and nose.
Fossil remains of modern humans have been found in the Nile Valley, including those of a child from Taramsa, in Egypt, believed to date to 60,000 to 50,000 years ago, though perhaps to as much as 80,000 years ago. The Nazlet Khater skeleton, also from Egypt, dates to around 33,000 years ago. Excavations in Egypt have also produced skeletal remains that date back to the cultures immediately preceding and following the first kings of a united Egypt, around 3100 B.C. By carefully using various scientific techniques, one can determine changes over time in the skeletal pattern of a particular place. The pattern of the craniofacial region and long bones is believed by most investigators to be helpful in understanding the forces of evolution on a population and, in some cases, when the pattern can be combined with other information, the population's region of origin. A similar pattern among different groups may indicate either a common ancestral origin, population interactions via intermarriage, and/or a common adaptive pattern related to the environment. Other information may help in assessing the meaning of similarity.
There has been scholarly interest in the biological variation and genealogical relationship of the ancient Egyptians to other populations outside of the Egyptian Nile Valley. There is no scientific reason to believe that the primary ancestors of the Egyptian population emerged and evolved outside of northeast Africa. Skeletal analyses have figured prominently in research. When comparisons to non-Egyptians are made, depending on which samples and methods are used, the craniofacial patterns of ancient Egyptian show a range of similarities to other African populations, Near Easterners, and Europeans. Overall, these studies can be interpreted as suggesting that the Egyptian Nile Valley's indigenous population had a craniofacial pattern that evolved and emerged in northeastern Africa, whose geography in relationship to climate largely explains the variation. Dental affinity studies generally agree with the craniofacial results, though they differ in the details. The body proportions of ancient Egyptians generally are similar to those of tropical (more southern) Africans.
Very little DNA has been retrieved from ancient Egyptian remains, and there are not many studies on the modern population. However, the results of analyses of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and the Y chromosome in the living Egyptian population show the existence of very old African lineages that are consistent with the fossil remains and of younger lineages of more recent evolution, along with evidence of the assimilation of later migrants from the Near East and Europe; mtDNA is passed only through the female line, from mother to offspring, and the relevant part of the Y chromosome, the nonrecombining section, passes only from father to son. The basic overall genetic profile of the modern population is consistent with the diversity of ancient populations that would have been indigenous to northeastern Africa and subject to the range of evolutionary influences over time, although researchers vary in the details of their explanations of those influences.
Bibliography Brauer, G., and K. Rimbach. "Late Archaic and Modern Homo sapiens From Europe, Africa, and Southwest Asia: Craniometric Comparisons and Phylogenetic Implications." Journal of Human Evolution. Vol. 19 (1990), 789-807.
Cruciani, F., and others. "Tracing Past Human Male Movements in Northern/Eastern Africa and Western Eurasia: New Clues From Y-chromosomal Haplogroups E-M78 and J-M12." Molecular Biology and Evolution. Vol. 24 (2007), 1300-11.
Howells, W. W. "Cranial Variation in Man." Papers of the Peabody Museum. Harvard, 1973.
Irish, J. D. "Who Were the Ancient Egyptians? Dental Affinities Among Neolithic Through Postdynastic Peoples." American Journal of Physical Anthropology. Vol. 129 (2006), 529-43.
Mukherjee, R., and others. The Ancient Inhabitants of Jebel Moya. Cambridge University, 1955.
Keita, S. O. Y. "Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships." History in Africa. Vol. 20 (1993), 129-54.
Keita, S. O. Y. "History in the Interpretation of the Pattern of p49a,f,Taq RFLP Y-chromosome Variation in Egypt: A consideration of Multiple Lines of Evidence." American Journal of Human Biology. Vol. 17 (2005), 559-67.
Keita, S.O.Y., and A. J. Boyce. "Temporal Variation in Phenetic Affinity of Early Upper Egyptian Male Cranial Series." Human Biology. (April 2008), 141-159.
Krings, M., and others. "MtDNA Analysis of Nile River Valley Populations: A Genetic Corridor or a Barrier to Migration?" American Journal of Human Genetics. Vol. 64 (1999), 1166-76.
Lucotte, G., and G. Mercier. "Brief Communication: Y-chromosome Haplotypes in Egypt." American Journal of Physical Anthropology. Vol. 121 (2003), 63-66.
Yu, Ning, and others. "Larger Genetic Differences Within Africans Than Between Africans and Eurasians." Genetics (May 2002), 269-74.
Vermeersch, P. M., and others. "Discovery of the Nazlet Khater Man, Upper Egypt." Journal of Human Evolution. Vol. 13 (1984), 281-86.
Vermeersch, P. M., and others. "A Middle Paleolithic Burial of a Human at Taramsa Hill, Egypt." Antiquity. Vol. 72 (1998), 475-84.
Zakrzewski, S. R. "Variation in Ancient Egyptian Stature and Body Proportions." American Journal of Physical Anthropology. Vol. 121 (2003), 219-29.
Zakrzewski, S. R. "Population Continuity or Population Change: Formation of the Ancient Egyptian State." American Journal of Physical Anthropology. Vol. 132 (2007), 501-09."
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Post by thamm1 on Mar 27, 2016 20:55:59 GMT -5
Now I know you will just simply ignore all the data that's just been presented because that's the best position that someone racially motivated can take in the face of overwhelming preponderance of data incomplete opposition of their racially-based agenda. However for the few of those that actually like facts here is the data. So one more time for good measure skin colored does not denote race I repeat the color of one's skin does not determine whether they are a Negroid or Caucasoid. For example the Dravidian peoples of southern India or black scanned however they are genetically closer to the Han Chinese then Africans. There are better when drives in Saudi Arabia that are essentially black skin but they are classified genetically and morphologically based on their skeletons as Caucasoid. This black skin versus white skin really is a Eurocentric Victorian England racist mine said that some Afrocentrist have now adopted. It has no basis in science or historical fact.
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Post by thamm1 on Mar 27, 2016 20:54:23 GMT -5
As for the top group in that picture chart of E1b1b groups here is that data.
"All major sub-branches of E-M35 are thought to have originated in the same general area as the parent clade: in North Africa, the Horn of Africa, or nearby areas of the Near East. Some branches of E-M35 left Africa many thousands of years ago. For example, Battaglia et al. (2007) estimated that E-M78 (called E1b1b1a1 in that paper) has been in Europe longer than 10,000 years. More recently, human remains excavated in a Spanish funeral cave dating from approximately 7,000 years ago were shown to be in this haplogroup.[11] Two more E-M78 have been found in the Neolitich Sopot and Lengyel cultures too.[12] Nevertheless, E-M35 likely represents more recent movements of people out of Africa than haplogroup CT, which otherwise dominates human populations outside Africa. Underhill (2002), for example, believes that the structure and regional pattern of E-M35 subclades potentially give "reagents with which to infer specific episodes of population histories associated with the Neolithic agricultural expansion".
Concerning European E-M35 within this scheme, Underhill & Kivisild (2007) have remarked that E-M215 seems to represent a late-Pleistocene migration from North Africa to Europe over the Sinai Peninsula in Egypt.[Note 2] While this proposal remains uncontested, it has more recently been proposed by Trombetta et al. (2011) that there is also evidence for additional migration of E-M215 carrying men directly from Africa to southwestern Europe, via a maritime route."
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Post by thamm1 on Mar 27, 2016 20:53:29 GMT -5
about the Gurna people they share common genetics with east africans which is M1 Did you know M1 haplogroup is strictly a Eurasian gene that can't be found in any of the original Sub Saharan African people? Did you know the Egyptians carried this gene? "The oral tradition of the Gurna people indicates that they, like most modern day Egyptians, descend from the Ancient Egyptians." onlinelibrary.wiley.com/.../j.1529-8817.2003.../full
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Post by thamm1 on Mar 27, 2016 20:51:12 GMT -5
Here are black West Africans
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Post by thamm1 on Mar 27, 2016 20:49:35 GMT -5
Here are Egyptians and those related to them.
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Post by thamm1 on Mar 27, 2016 20:48:09 GMT -5
You know a few Afrocentrist have tried making that statement if you actually take the time to look into the genetic group at top they are not Nubians. As Nubians do not group with North Africans. The group at the top I know you're looking at the picture and yours fixated on the color of their skin is actually the same as all the Mediterranean races. But I'll do you one better you do understand that Ethiopians and Somalis do not group with West Africans but group with North Africans in the eastern people genetically speaking. This is to say that Bantu tribes are not related to those predynastic Egyptian people's. Ultimately if you know how to reach genetic data I can post to more pictures but what happens typically with you Afrocentrist if you ignore the data this data is from 2015 OK tonight data is being updated yearly.
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Post by thamm1 on Mar 27, 2016 20:47:21 GMT -5
This approach was also applied to predynastic groups in the western desert as well as dental examination. It is very clear Egyptians and the several groups that comprised predynastic Egytians includung a back migration from the near east of pastoral herders are of North African genetic lineage. Honestly all these hacks can do is afro-shop pictures, point to disouted data and or wuote antiquated therories. Since the advent of mapping the human genome a whole host of once believed "facts" have been debunked and or modified to conform with the indisputable genetic science. We are now beginning to understand the path modern himan grouos took including the fact that The evolution of these groups was in parallel to each other and included meeting with other species of now extinct Homo sapiens. Black Africans bread with different Homo sapiens species then North Africans Asians and northern Europeans. There is no direct line from blacks to every other race the human family tree is very diverse and we're still learning. Honestly from a cultural standpoint where are the examples of architecture art and other forms of high culture that existed in north Africa, the Mediteranean and the Near East in sub-Saharan Africa? They're nowhere to be found that is not to say they didn't have their own culture with architecture and art and technology but it is not resembling anything from the former.
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Post by thamm1 on Mar 27, 2016 20:46:24 GMT -5
*"A group of noted physical anthropologists conducted craniofacial studies of Egyptian skeletal remains and concluded similarly that "the Egyptians have been in place since back in the Pleistocene and have been largely unaffected by either invasions or migrations. As others have noted, Egyptians are Egyptians, and they were so in the past as well."* onlinelibrary.wiley.com/.../abstract;jsessionid...
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