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Post by franklin on Apr 20, 2010 15:51:34 GMT -5
Edit: deleted last comment so this might seem out of place: Homeylu, Your right that gold was very abundant but at the same time Europeans managed to start selling it to the gold coast, you are right that the slave trade was going on but there was a dramatic transformation in many ways. I think that these "Sudanese" were actually trying to keep the price low to drive out competition, like with the case in South Africa (shown earlier in this thread) where during colonialism the price of gold was so low wages became even lower. Gold is a resource like anything else so producers would want to drive out competition, just as Europeans out competed African steel producers by selling steel at cheaper prices (as shown earlier in this thread). The reason for the raising of gold prices in the 18th century could very likely be due to resources being put into slave capturing rather than mining The reason for the slave trade was to have an alternative to raising wages, the Royal African Company was subsidized because such an organization was necessary to serve the slave traders, later a non-profit organization was used. While Europeans sold silver to Asia they sold gold to Africa and such a system required massive government intervention to maintain There is much evidence (not in this article) that the competition between the South Sea Company, Royal African Company and private traders pushed the prices on slaves even higher. See thread "The epicness of the African slave trade" egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bag&action=display&thread=32Also see thread "Liberal imperialism", obesity and world hunger are both ways in which farmers can sell their produce because there must be increasing consumption to meet with production. So it is actually overproduction of food that causes allot of world hunger. In a very similar way the slave trade allowed for a way to sell merchandise egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bag&action=display&thread=115This is something I posted earlier but this is extremely important when it comes to the history of gold, it can be downloaded “Gold, Assortments and the Trade Ounce: Fante Merchants and the Problem of Supply and Demand in the 1770s Author(s)”: George Metcalf Source: The Journal of African History, Vol. 28, No. 1 (1987), pp. 27-41 Electronic page 9 and 10 www.jstor.org/pss/181447[Worse still, they often had to purchase gold from areas west of the Gold Coast proper (such as Appolonia) at 1-5 times the price it commanded in the London market in terms of the prime cost of their goods.The reasons for this reversal of the gold trade are still obscure, as a consequence of the cloak of secrecy which the Akan threw over everything relating to gold. (Miles himself undertook an investi-gation of the subject but could produce no answers.) Walter Rodney suggested that Akan gold production began to decline in the early eighteenth century, and link this to the rise in profits that could be made by concentrating on slave production rather than on gold mining. If this is so it is an irony that the Europeans by promoting the slave trade were ultimately forced, much against their wishes, to carry gold to the Gold Coast. A more likely explanation of the phenomenon lies in the increasing monetarization of the Asante economy, described by Joseph LaTorre, and in the consequent hoarding of gold in Asante itself. This in turn provoked a partial monetarization of the Fante economy and undoubtedly increased the value of gold whether it was regarded as a currency or a commodity] Attachments:
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Post by franklin on Apr 20, 2010 17:04:08 GMT -5
homeylu, do you think it is possible that Africans were using the same kind of economic manipulation that Europeans are using today? ...... As coin production increased, the need for gold increased. So the middle-man (Ancient Ghana/ and the Tuareg) had to find something worthy of trade for the Africans in the south. So I would say they manipulated or rather marketed the use of salt for these purposes. Although sub-saharans had sufficient enough salt for survival, new uses of salt had to be introduced to make it worthy of a trade, such as it's use in preserving foods, and maintaining hydration in the desert. I've often wondered about that, the British did something similar when they had a market for goods produced in America so that Americans could not sell to other people after independence because only the British had a big enough market for the specific merchandise Copper mining would an important source of revenue for the Mali empire (at least I think I read that), I do know that they were exporting copper to other the East . But there was also importing copper, so the copper thing would be similar to the salt that you mentioned, to create a way to sell the gold "Medieval trans-Sahara mineral trade mapped" www.afrol.com/articles/18867
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Post by franklin on Apr 20, 2010 18:16:52 GMT -5
homeylu, do you think it is possible that Africans were using the same kind of economic manipulation that Europeans are using today? ...As the demand for gold increased with the arrival of the Arabs and the introduction of gold to the Europeans who found several other uses for it, the Ghana Kingdom became more aware of it's value, and kept a grasp on the trade, by 'hiding' it's sources from the Arabs and other North Africans. In other words, they could not allow it to be known how abundant this resource was in sub-Sahara Africa, otherwise it would jeopardize their trading position. Oh and I mentioned this several times but it is significant that Mansa Musa is despised in some places today because he gave away all of that gold, this was why I compared this to the Europeans because trade was used as a means to gain more power in different parts of the world even when it was at the expense in some ways to the home country Also it was widely believed by outsiders that gold was very abundant in the "land of the Sudan", at least from what I've read. For example there was an account that the king of Ghana took all the gold nuggets to avoid inflation or something like that. In a conversation I had before I had suggested that the reason the "Sudan" was not invaded was because the Almoravids and Almohads were reliant on them when it came to trade but there was a lack of interest in military conquest or religious propaganda. And of course there were various crafts and industries so it would not be only gold that would force people into reliance
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Post by franklin on Apr 21, 2010 14:18:36 GMT -5
I shouldn't make a new thread so I'll post this here. Since we are talking about gold the British empire was able to attain a great part of the world gold trade, but they were not simply middle men or tax collectors. In the same way the Africans that we are talking about are savy traders and like the British also had a thriving cotton cloth industry.... "A dictionary, practical, theoretical, and historical, of commerce" 1852 books.google.com/books?id=tGpCAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA410#v=onepage&q=&f=false [In order still better to illustrate the trade of Brazil, we take leave to subjoin the following details from Mr. Caldelugh’s Travels in South America. They are neither, however, so recent, nor of such authority, as those already laid before the reader:- “The colonial system, which was strictly preserved until the arrival of the court, kept the country in a state of ignorance of many of those beautiful articles of English manufacture, now so greedily purchased by all. The Brazil trade may be considered as entirely in the hands of the British, as if an exclusive monopoly existed in their favor. Brazil takes from us every thing she requires, excepting wine from Portugal; and the importance this trade to England may be well conceived, when it is mentioned that, after the East and West Indies and the United States, it forms the greatest mart for our fabrics, and one that is most rapidly increasing. ]
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Post by homeylu on Apr 23, 2010 7:45:30 GMT -5
Going back to your original topic Franklin, I was able to find some limited sources on the uses of diamonds, but I have yet to find anything to show how and if it was used by Africans themselves prior to European exploitation. Diamond History goes 3000 years ago in India when it was believed to "ward off evil spirits as they prepared for battle". This is where the first knowledge of diamonds were introduced to Europeans. As Europeans began to exploit the stone, first in India, they then began to recognize it for more than it's mythical powers, it's rarity and value became heightened. Most diamond mines only have a life time of about 20 years, so many of the previous ones used by De Beers in South Africa, have now been closed, as the mines have been 'depleted', so to speak. "As the Indian diamond supply dwindled, smaller finds occurred in Borneo and Brazil, but these were not sufficient to meet the ever-increasing demand for diamonds. The mid-nineteenth century discovery of diamonds near the Orange River in South Africa sparked the world's biggest diamond rush, and helped to satiate the world's increasing appetite for diamonds. "Valuing Diamonds "A diamond in its natural, uncut state is described as a "rough diamond". Its natural appearance so resembles a glass pebble that most people would pass it by without a second glance. It is the skill of the diamond cutter that unlocks the brilliance for which diamonds are renowned."Diamond Mining "ipe Mining Pipe mining refers to the extraction of diamonds from volcanic pipes. Typically, a very large area has to be covered. An average of 250 tonnes of ore must be mined in order to produce a one-carat gem quality polished diamond.
In most countries, a diamond pipe mine is composed of kimberlite, or blue ground. Initially kimberlite is dug from the surface of the pipes in rough opencast mining. Once the surface deposits have been exhausted, shafts are sunk into the ground at the edge of the pipes, and tunnels are driven into the deeper parts of the pipes. After the diamond-bearing rock is brought to the surface, it is then transported to a screening plant where the diamonds are separated from the host rock.
Alluvial Mining This process involves the extraction of diamonds from riverbeds or ocean beaches. Millions of years ago, at the time the diamond pipes were formed, some diamonds were weathered out of the pipes and carried great distances along rivers and even into oceans. "www.costellos.com.au/diamonds/history.htmlSo it's stated that although the majority of the world's diamond mines are in Africa, 92% of them are cut and polished in India. And in 1938 DeBeers starting marketing diamonds as an engagement ring.
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Post by franklin on Apr 23, 2010 16:21:23 GMT -5
Ya Europeans have been wanting to screw with relations between India and Africa for a long time
Whats interesting about this manipulation of prices is that during the occupation of South Africa low gold prices lead to more exploitation, but now higher diamond prices lead to more exploitation
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Post by franklin on Apr 26, 2010 12:00:30 GMT -5
Copper isn't mentioned in this article but I think at the beginning the price of copper was low so copper couldn't be mined as profitably so he went more into rubber... Later on the price of rubber went down and copper went up or something like that. I'll have to look into that more Also regardless that he (King Leopold) was willing to have millions of people killed he still isn't the brilliant business man he is made out to be, at least to the extent that the enterprise was initially losing money and would put Leopold into massive debt. He did convince the world that he was a great philanthropist though. After the initial years of losses the way things were run radically changed and thus the extraction of rubber and it looks like there was also a fall in ivory prices. Edit: if thats what he means by "declining ivory profits" The Congo Free State – A Latifundium of Terror 16/04/2010 by J.F. Gjersø thecivilisingmission.com/2010/04/16/the-congo-free-state-a-latifundium-of-terror/#_ftn1[The Congo rubber genus Landolphia retains characteristics of fragility and is easily killed through excessive or incorrect tapping. It grows as a wild vine, climbing upwards in a twisting fashion around the trunks of large trees. It rather sparsely populates the rainforests of Equatorial Africa, being populous in certain confined areas and as few as one plant per hectare in others. This stands in stark contrast to the rubber plant species Hevea grown in Brazil, a hearty and productive genus suitable for large-scale latex production in plantation style agricultural units[13]. The difference between these plants might have led to early misconceptions among the Free State’s administration as to the productive capabilities of their particular domestic plants.......The combination of rising rubber prices, declining ivory profits, improvements in transportation infrastructure allowing the state to profit from high-bulk, low value commodities, the King’s precarious financial situation and willingness to allow coercive action against the indigenous population all led the way to an economy primarily based on rubber harvesting. Despite the rise in prices, rubber still retained features of having a low value-to-volume ratio, there was few skills involved in its harvesting, requiring little more than a knife and a collection vessel for the latex, thus qualifying most of the population to take part in the harvesting. Due to its low value-to-volume ratio large amounts of the commodity would be required to breach the fixed and variable cost levels imposed through transportation and colonial administrative costs. To achieve profit maximisation for the State, labour-input costs would be externalised to the indigenous population, put in another way, labour would be obtained through coercing the natives.]
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Post by franklin on May 5, 2010 20:04:43 GMT -5
I did refute the idea that gold was worthless, the issue was that Africans hundreds of years ago were intentionally producing large amounts of gold to flood in the world market, and later this reversed, at least on the Gold Coast but often Europeans would buy gold from different parts of Africa and sell it to the Gold Coast. This is why I think modern Europeans are using tactics that the Ghana and Mali empires used Africans were trying to lower the world price of gold As for cotton it's production is still causing human right's issues as cheap cotton is dumped in places all over Africa. This sort of imperialism involved the manipulation of world prices and supply Also the giving out of food in the form of aid in modern times is just like what Mansa Musa did with gold. However doing this with food is far more cruel but it involved creating a massive supply and lowering the price To sum it up, what Mansa Musa did with gold hundreds of years ago is what modern Europeans are doing with agriculture today "US AND EU COTTON PRODUCTION AND EXPORT POLICIES AND THEIR IMPACT ON WEST AND CENTRAL AFRICA: COMING TO GRIPS WITH INTERNATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS OBLIGATIONS" May 2004 www.3dthree.org/pdf_3D/1404-EGICottonBrief_FINAL.pdf
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Post by franklin on May 6, 2010 20:07:44 GMT -5
Over production is both a motive for imperialism and a tool for imperialism as it can be used as a way to lower prices and thus forcing other nations into reliance.
However, overproduction is something inherent in government intervention not in so called "free market". Whatever the case may be, a major motivation for imperialism has been, and will continue to be, as a way to find new markets to sell merchandise, as will as to find suppliers. Today a major aim of the United States and European Union in Africa and many places in the world is to find a way to unload agricultural surplus
So this is the kind of Wal-Mart imperialism that has been prevalent with Europeans for hundreds of years
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