Hapi Valley Origins and Dispersal of "Niger-Congo speakers"

[asante]

Feb 8, 2014 20:49:39 GMT -5 anansi said:

Because some folk traditions points them to be descendants of the Prophet Muhammad,Jews the queen of Sheba or any numerous Biblical or Koranic figures,like TruthTeacher said folks traditions is just that folk traditions.

Think about every claim that you just listed. Do these claims all not involve a link to the ancient Egyptian populations? Have you ever read the book the "Africans who wrote the Bible"?

The main points of his book are:

• Americans and Europeans assume that the Bible is about them, but the Bible is about my ancient ancestors and me…..Alex Darkwah
• Modern-day Jews see the Bible as a record of their history because the King James Bible is centered on the history of Israel.
• The Jewish people of Europe and America still carry African Tribal names. They carry the names of their ancestors who were Africans.
• Statistically, the Lemba people from Southeast Africa are more Jewish than European Jews. In a particular Lemba Clan known as the Buba Clan, 53 percent of the males carry the unique DNA signature of Jewish priests. Males form the Lemba Tribe carry a higher incidence of the Jewish priestly DNA signature than the European and American Jewish population.
• When the police have the fingerprints of a wanted man, they know the man whose prints match. The same thing can be said here.
• The early Roman Catholic Church portrayed Jesus and his mother in the original Black images of the Jewish people at that time--The Black Madonna. What African tribe were they from?
• The time period of the early Catholic Church is closer to the Jews leaving Africa and going to Europe than the Renaissance Painters who painted Jesus White.
• What Europe did not count on was that Africans would still know their past.

Darkwah states that ancient Egypt was geographically in Africa and that so called European experts do not know the Ancient Egyptian story because they are not familiar with African tribal names. They do not have the linguistic and cultural backgrounds to identify Egyptian names and have simply transposed the African names of people and places in Ancient Egyptian history into European languages to make it possible for them to claim expertise. Darkwah traces the ancient past of African tribes from the Middle East through Ancient Egypt to inner Africa. He reveals the African tribe that historians gave the fictitious names the Sumerians, Akkadians, and the African Tribes that were the Ancient Egyptians.

Africans are the indigenous Native Hebrews (Jews). The greatest secret of Africa has never been told, and Christian Europe has been seeking to conceal for the past two thousand years is the African origin of the concepts, doctrines, sacramental practices of religion, and the documents that became the foundations of Christianity in Europe. Did you know that the names of Abraham, Isaac, Esau, and Jacob were all derived from African tribal words and names? Did you know that the earliest “Hebrew” name for God, Adonai, was derived from an African tribal word? Did you know that other name of God, Yahweh, was derived from an African tribal God? ... Did you know that the names of the authors of the Old Testament are not “Hebrew” or “Jewish” names, but transposed African tribal names? Christian Europe has never known these because it has never known the African linguistic and cultural side of the biblical story.

The indigenous African tribal name of the most popular Ancient Egyptian king the west was Tutu Ankoma—not Tutankhamun. Not only do we know the indigenous African tribal name of this Ancient Egyptian king, but we also know where the modern dynasty of his ancient dynasty is today. We know in Africa that the Ancient Egyptian king who built the middle pyramid in Giza was called Akufu and not Khufu as the "experts" have told us. We also know that his two sons completed the procession of pyramids and placed a lion in the front of the procession. These sons were Dade Afre and not Djedefra as the experts transposed this name; and his brother was Ochere Afre and not Chephren as the experts have told us. The modern dynasty of these ancient kings is the Akuapem Dynasty that can be found today in the Eastern Region of Ghana. Conservatives, liberals, and all in between can go to check these people out and verify the royal names among these people.

The book is about the Africans who wrote the Bible as well as Ancient Egypt. It is the untold story of the African tribes that were the Ancient Egyptians. It is the untold story of the people from these African tribes that left Ancient Egypt for it to become the biblical Exodus. It is about the untold story of these people that later went to Europe to become the Jews and Hebrews. It is about untold story of the Africans who actually wrote the documents of the Bible before Afrim (Jewish) scholars translated these documents for the Greeks in Ancient Egypt and claimed that their people in Israel wrote those documents.

We in Africa even know the indigenous African tribal name of the people of the Exodus before they went to Europe to become the Jews and Hebrews. A review of a DNA study of Jewish people African tribes discovered one of the African tribes from which some of the people of the Exodus originated. Check it out in the New York Times of May 9, 1999. What does this prove? It proves the Ancient Egyptian and biblical stories were all Black people’s stories.

The Ancient Egyptians were Black people and their modern descendants are alive and well in Africa. Real evidence of the modern descendants of the Ancient Egyptians in the tribes of Africa and the language and culture these people left behind in Ancient Egypt is the most powerful evidence there is about the Black racial origin of the Ancient Egyptians.

In the 1960's and 1970's there were Jewish scholars who were secretly traveling around Africa researching African Tribes to find out from which tribe they belonged. They studied the Akan Religion of the Asante people to find out the similarities between Judaism and Christianity. The word Israel was derived from an African Tribal meaning. Most "Jewish" people still carry their African Tribal names of origin.

The Sinai peninsula is clearly in Africa and is where the Israelites claim to receive their oral and written law. Geologically speaking all of the adjacent Arabian peninsula clear up to Syria is part of the African continent. The Great Rift Valley extends from Mozambique to Syria. The continental drift of tectonics shows the Arabian plate breaking off from the continent and colliding into the Asian plate to create the mountain ranges of Turkey and Armenia (University of Moscow).

The Hebrews as many of us know were nothing more than a group of ancient Egyptians who migrated to neighboring Israel to follow the banished radical monotheistic religious views of Akenathan after his death. This migration of ancient Egyptians carrying M2 lineages (US) into ancient Israel/Canaan is validated by M2 lineages found in all "Jewish" populations dating back to over 2,000 years ago before their dispersal from Israel.

Levantine groups harbor 4%-15% African ancestry with an average mixture date of about 32 generations ago, consistent with close political, economic, and cultural links with Egypt in the late middle ages. We also detect 3%-5% sub-Saharan African ancestry in all eight of the diverse Jewish populations that we analyzed. For the Jewish admixture, we obtain an average estimated date of about 72 generations. This may reflect descent of these groups from a common ancestral population that already had some African ancestry prior to the Jewish Diasporas....We estimate that the average date of the mixture of 72 generations (~2,000 years assuming 29 years per generation [30]) is older than that in Southern Europeans or other Levantines. The point estimates over all 8 populations are between 1,600–3,400 years ago, but with largely overlapping confidence intervals. It is intriguing that the Mizrahi Irani and Iraqi Jews—who are thought to descend at least in part from Jews who were exiled to Babylon about 2,600 years ago [39], [40]—share the signal of African admixture. The History of African Gene Flow into Southern Europeans, Levantines, and Jews

Some of the Jews are recorded to have fled to West Africa (Igbo and Bameleke) via Phoenician ships during the Roman attack. It was recorded that during the slave trade when other tribes caught Igbos they referred to them as "Hebrews" and more recent arrivals to West Africa. Ironically some European slavers were very much aware of that certain populations of West Africa were in fact Hebrews, as they labeled a region of modern day Nigeria as the "Kingdom of Judah" on some of their maps. 




The Lemba's oral tradition has also been verified by genetics, which subsequently verifies the inclusion of "US" in the so-called Afrisan migration. The Lemba are over 60% haplogroup J, speak Hebrew (so called "Semitic"/Afrisan) along with "Bantu" (in harmony), practice Hebrew customs and have phenotypes indistinct from other Bantu speakers. Obviously the Lemba were apart of the original Afrisan/CEA (abbrev. "Contemporary Equatorial African"/M2 lineage, Niger-Kordofanian speaking, "true Negro" US) migration and the subsequent southward migration down the Arabian peninsula, which is always incorrectly only attributed to the back migration of Ethiopic, Amharic speaking, monotheistic populations into Ethiopia from across the red sea. The CEA's who were also apart of the migration like the Lemba obviously also spoke Semitic, but against a Niger-Kordofanian/Bantu backdrop (just like the ancient Egyptian language). The instrumental involvement of CEA's and our language in this so-called "Afrisan" or "Afro-Asiatic" migration which originated in Eastern Africa is deliberately being hidden by Western scholars.

WATCH THIS

NOW LOOK AT THIS

Which in turn correlates with:
Original homeland of the Bantu up to 1500 A.D
Dark shading: Possible ultimate origin of the Bantu
Cross shading: Area of Bantu expansion into Egypt

The so-called "Afrisan" migration as described by disingenuous Western scholars (which our ancestors claim to have been apart of) and subsequent destination points mirrors the distribution of OUR blood disease! You have to be a brainwashed FOOL to not see the legitimacy of our ancestors claims of our inhabiting these places in northern Africa and the Middle East. The arrow pointing from Canaan (the region known to have been inhabited by the "negroid" Natufanians who came out of Egypt) is going straight into Mesopotamia. It is becoming common knowledge that Niger-Congo and particularly "Bantu" was a language which spoken in this ancient region. Yes, our own Clyde Winters and his "Afrocentric lunatic claims" has been vindicated/approved by white and Asian scholars (Many needed their nod of approval smh). In fact recent Chinese scholars even proposed that Bantu's originated in the Middle East (false of course), because of the undeniable "Bantu" links to those ancient Middle Eastern languages. Why is OUR blood disease (every type) also found in the same regions of these ancient civilizations where we are said to be involved? 

 

This migration brought US into Arabia as you can see, "Mecca" is the area of Eastern Arabia that has the highest concentration of our blood disease. 




Of course we know that the Berbers East of the Nile were converted to Islam and formed the vast majority of the Moorish army/rulers who would eventually conquest southern Europe (sickle cell trail their as well). After their defeat those Muslim Moors retreated back into Western Africa where today there are huge Muslim populations of OUR people. The Wolof for example:

Exactly the point being made all that intra African ethnic mix so how then are you going to successfully separate "them" especially when you use the term "Us"

When I use the word "ethnic" I was referring to general groups like Nilotic, Khoisan, Pygmie and Ethiopic. CEA's have our own distinct phenotype. Those populations who have deviations from our general physical type have been noted to have some sort non CEA black African admixture.

AkA Niger Kordofinians a language group to include the Black westerners don't you see how futile that exercise is??.

lol Come on don't do that! All the way up until now you were complaining about my use of term "Negroid" or "true Negro" even when it was explained to you that these phrases were nothing more than descriptions of our specific physical type due to a lack of any other name to describe us (Hence our identity has been stripped from us)! I asked you to give a term that YOU deemed appropriate to describe the M2 lineage carrying, Niger-Congo speaking, "true Negro" US, and YOU said that "Niger-Kordofanian" will work. Therefore I'm using the "CEA" (explained above). 

Look at the wide geographical area the spread of that language is, there is bound to be physical and cultural similarities and dissimilariti

Yes and you will not find any non "true negroes" in the area besides those mentioned or others with known non M2 carrying, Niger-Congo, "true Negro" Africans. Of course there is great physical variation in our population, especially in skin color. People just need to truly explore our own rather than glorifying everyone who is Africa who is not US.



Migration from Kush

[asante]

Feb 9, 2014 2:03:48 GMT -5 truthteacher2007 said:

I've been quite busy, but I'll add a bit here. There's much more I want to say though. For one thing, on the point of origin myths. I'm fully aware of claims of an Egyptian association by certain Yorubas. My question, who to believe? According to the traditional spiritual tradition, the Earth began at Ile Ife when God sent Odudua from heaven to create the Earth. Then there are those claiming an Egyptian or Nubian origin, but that's just the beginning. Then there are the ones claiming a Mesopotaminan origin as the descendants of Nimrod. Then we have the lost tribe of Israel camp. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!
Then there's the camp claiming an origin in Mecca after the time of the Prophet. Supposedly Odudua was born a Muslim and returned to paganism and was banished because he tried to overcome Islam and return to paganism and eventually settled in Ile Ife. And last but not least is the Yemenite origin theory..... Is anyone seeing a problem here?

It seems like you're saying everything that you can in order to avoid acknowledging the validity of the Yoruba's claim (our people in general) of a migration from ancient Egypt, which was demonstrated to you in my last reply.

[asante]

Feb 8, 2014 21:27:47 GMT -5 anansi said:

And yet it is the relatively lite skinned Fulani who are Niger Korodofanians and the relatively darker Hausa who are Afrasians,

What is your point? When have I put emphasis on skin color???

and the Fulani are not Somali although resembling them somewhat some of the time.
Btw Carlton Coon??..really???

Why do you act like my use of these older anthropological works are not explained before or directly after I use them? What was the reason that I gave for referencing Coon?

[anansi]

Asante

Darkwah traces the ancient past of African tribes from the Middle East through Ancient Egypt to inner Africa. He reveals the African tribe that historians gave the fictitious names the Sumerians, Akkadians, and the African Tribes that were the Ancient Egyptians.

Ok to what lamguage group or family Sumerian and Akkadian belonged to.

Did you know that the names of Abraham, Isaac, Esau, and Jacob were all derived from African tribal words and names? Did you know that the earliest “Hebrew” name for God, Adonai, was derived from an African tribal word? Did you know that other name of God, Yahweh, was derived from an African tribal God? ... Did you know that the names of the authors of the Old Testament are not “Hebrew” or “Jewish” names, but transposed African tribal names? Christian Europe has never known these because it has never known the African linguistic and cultural side of the biblical story.

And did you know that the language that the Hebrews spoke was from the greater Afrasian super family with Semitic the youngest of the branch.


But aaah darn it! you kick em to the curve as not "OUR PEOPLE"! in any case such similarity in names is due to them being part of that family.

The Hebrews as many of us know were nothing more than a group of ancient Egyptians who migrated to neighboring Israel to follow the banished radical monotheistic religious views of Akenathan after his death. This migration of ancient Egyptians carrying M2 lineages (US) into ancient Israel/Canaan is validated by M2 lineages found in all "Jewish" populations dating back to over 2,000 years ago before their dispersal from Israel.

And again I ask to what language group this M2 lineages belonged to?
,
The Lemba's oral tradition has also been verified by genetics, which subsequently verifies the inclusion of "US" in the so-called Afrisan migration. The Lemba are over 60% haplogroup J, speak Hebrew (so called "Semitic"/Afrisan) along with "Bantu" (in harmony), practice Hebrew customs and have phenotypes indistinct from other Bantu speakers.

Well aware of the Lemba, but non Judaic Js and others are found on the coast,Africa's East coast is long in trade relations with it's partners in Asia so Jews finding their way to Southern Africa is not that big of surprise, and yes some are still visibly Black in Yemen.

Of course we know that the Berbers East of the Nile were converted to Islam and formed the vast majority of the Moorish army/rulers who would eventually conquest southern Europe (sickle cell trail their as well). After their defeat those Muslim Moors retreated back into Western Africa where today there are huge Muslim populations of OUR people. The Wolof:

You do know that for a set of gene to move from one geographical area to the next do not necessitate the original carrier to migrate with it right? and such carriers are not bound to culture or even physical traits,think about it like this lets say one person with syphilis say in NY had unprotected sex that partner had unprotected sex with another who took a train to Phili,that person then gave another person the same decease who took it to Florida and spread it around all persons involved are not intimately related or have to look like each other.

Anansi
Look at the wide geographical area the spread of that language is, there is bound to be physical and cultural similarities and dissimilaritis
Asante
Yes and you will not find any non "true negroes" in the area besides those mentioned or others with known non M2 carrying, Niger-Congo, "true Negro" Africans. Of course there is great physical variation in our population, especially in skin color. People just need to truly explore our own rather than glorifying everyone who is Africa who is not US.

Oh really???.. look back on that map and re-think what you just wrote.

[eternalsky]

Feb 9, 2014 6:59:25 GMT -5 anansi said:

The Hebrews as many of us know were nothing more than a group of ancient Egyptians who migrated to neighboring Israel to follow the banished radical monotheistic religious views of Akenathan after his death. This migration of ancient Egyptians carrying M2 lineages (US) into ancient Israel/Canaan is validated by M2 lineages found in all "Jewish" populations dating back to over 2,000 years ago before their dispersal from Israel.

And again I ask to what language group this M2 lineages belonged to?
,
The Lemba's oral tradition has also been verified by genetics, which subsequently verifies the inclusion of "US" in the so-called Afrisan migration. The Lemba are over 60% haplogroup J, speak Hebrew (so called "Semitic"/Afrisan) along with "Bantu" (in harmony), practice Hebrew customs and have phenotypes indistinct from other Bantu speakers.

Well aware of the Lemba, but non Judaic Js and others are found on the coast,Africa's East coast is long in trade relations with it's partners in Asia so Jews finding their way to Southern Africa is not that big of surprise, and yes some are still visibly Black in Yemen.

Well, speaking of the Lemba, since the rate of haplogroup J is so high I doubt that it would come from trade with Semitic people, but some sort of migration of Semitic people in the region. The Lemba share genetic marker similarities with people in Hadhramaut, Yemen who have a somewhat "African" phenotype. Along with this, Lemba oral tradition does state that they did come from Yemen.


Here is an image of a Hadhramaut man for reference sake.

[anansi]

Feb 9, 2014 5:24:15 GMT -5 asante said:

Feb 8, 2014 21:27:47 GMT -5 anansi said:

And yet it is the relatively lite skinned Fulani who are Niger Korodofanians and the relatively darker Hausa who are Afrasians,

What is your point? When have I put emphasis on skin color???

and the Fulani are not Somali although resembling them somewhat some of the time.
Btw Carlton Coon??..really???

Why do you act like my use of these older anthropological works are not explained before or directly after I use them? What was the reason that I gave for referencing Coon?

Not just skin color but facial type also.

Asante

In northern Nigeria are the Hausa, a numerous and widespread people who are skilled craftsmen and clever traders. Beyond them and among them are the Fula or Peul, and the related Fulani, cattle people who have invaded the agricultural regions of the western Sudan, founded dynasties, and been overthrown from time to time. All of them are Caucasoids in a sense, and somewhat Negroid. The Fula are noted for their lean build and narrow faces, like the Somalis, but they are lighter in slighter skin color, being usually a light reddish brown." Carleton Coon - THE LIVING RACES OF MAN - 1973

Yes Carlton Coon and his racial typology that why.

Coon published The Origin of Races in 1962. In its "Introduction" he described the book as part of the outcome of his project he conceived (in light of his work on The Races of Europe) around the end of 1956, for a work to be titled along the lines of Races of the World. He said that since 1959 he had proceeded with the intention to follow The Origin of Races with a sequel, so the two would jointly fulfill the goals of the original project.[6] (He indeed published The Living Races of Man in 1965.) The book asserted that the human species divided into five races before it had evolved into Homo sapiens. Further, he suggested that the races evolved into Homo sapiens at different times. It was not well received.[7] The field of anthropology was moving rapidly from theories of race typology, and The Origin of Races was widely castigated by his peers in anthropology as supporting racist ideas with outmoded theory and notions which had long since been repudiated by modern science. One of his harshest critics, Theodore Dobzhansky, scorned it as providing "grist for racist mills"

This is wiki sourced but good enough in this case:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carleton_S._Coon
I don't know man but some of you brothers spent way too much time battling racist and supremacist on their own turf/sites that you adopt their terminologies and out dated works you used to battle them with,I say shake it off they already lost that battle a long long time ago. there is a reason they do not go for new up dated info..Caucasian what the heck is that but a chain of mountains in Eastern Europe that has jack to do with how our fam looked in Africa.

[truthteacher2007]

Feb 9, 2014 5:19:36 GMT -5 asante said:

Feb 9, 2014 2:03:48 GMT -5 truthteacher2007 said:

I've been quite busy, but I'll add a bit here. There's much more I want to say though. For one thing, on the point of origin myths. I'm fully aware of claims of an Egyptian association by certain Yorubas. My question, who to believe? According to the traditional spiritual tradition, the Earth began at Ile Ife when God sent Odudua from heaven to create the Earth. Then there are those claiming an Egyptian or Nubian origin, but that's just the beginning. Then there are the ones claiming a Mesopotaminan origin as the descendants of Nimrod. Then we have the lost tribe of Israel camp. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!
Then there's the camp claiming an origin in Mecca after the time of the Prophet. Supposedly Odudua was born a Muslim and returned to paganism and was banished because he tried to overcome Islam and return to paganism and eventually settled in Ile Ife. And last but not least is the Yemenite origin theory..... Is anyone seeing a problem here?

It seems like you're saying everything that you can in order to avoid acknowledging the validity of the Yoruba's claim (our people in general) of a migration from ancient Egypt, which was demonstrated to you in my last reply.

#1: You still haven't explained why only people with a certain physical type migrated out of Egypt, leaving their relatives behind. #2: Even Van Sertima in the very speech YOU posted says that Yirubas didn't come from Egypt, but they and the Egyptians are the children of an older culture. That the similarities you see in both locations are things that have always existed in the foundational African culture that we all came from. #3: Why do you choose to ignore the claims of the Yoruba who say that they originated in Ile Ife and were always there? If their traditional religion says they came from Ile Ife and says nothing about Egypt, then I have to assume that these ideas came at a later time when Yorubas who were converted to Islam and Christianity sought to gain prestige by associating themselves with Biblical and Islamic peoples. #4: All the different claims of where Odudua came from. Some say he came from Mesopotamia and migrated to West Africa, some say he originated in Egypt and settled in West Africa, then some say he was a Jew who migrated to West Africa, then some say he was born a Muslim in Mecca, then abandoned Islam to become a pagan, THEN went into Egypt, (which at that time would have been a predominantly christian country), then settled in West Africa..... WELL CAN SOMEBODY MAKE UP THEIR MIND?! WHICH IS IT?

I don't think it's impossable that from time to time people from the East, (pick a place of your choice), could have found their way to West Africa, but they would have been small in number and they would not have been coming into a virgin land. They would have been absorbed into the people and culture. The Lemba are an example of this. There were Jewish male ancestors who settled in that area and married local women. But, #1: there's genetic evidence to show that SOME of them are indeed descended from Jews, But #2: not all of them carry those genes. #3According to Jewish law, they're not Jews because it didn't come from the mother's line, (coincidentally, most European Jews aren't Jews for the same reason....). Now here's the question: Is there any genetic evidence to support a semetic origin for Yorubas, or Igbos. Is there any genetic evidence to show an Egyptian origin? If the day comes when you can show me something concrete besides, "because I said so", or convoluted misunderstandings of cultural practices, then I'll listen. Till then, we'll just have to agree to dissagree. I give MY PEOPLE the credit for creating their own cultures and civilizations.

[asante]

Feb 9, 2014 10:21:52 GMT -5 truthteacher2007 said:

You still haven't explained why only people with a certain physical type migrated out of Egypt, leaving their relatives behind.

Well for one you need to produce a quote where I stated this. I even pointed out earlier that the original population duo of Ethiopic "Afrisan" speakers and CEA (Contemporary Equatorial African/M2 lineage carrying, Niger-Congo speaking, "true Negro"/US) migrated into the Middle East and into Europe:



As you can you see OUR blood disease trail also follows this exact same migration.



Let's put this back into context. What migration are we talking about:

The most successful of these were speakers of Proto-Afro-Asiatic language from the African rift valley. Going through the savannah, the Chadic speakers reached Lake Chad while the Berbers, the Maghreb and the Proto-Egyptians arrived in Upper Egypt. However Martin Bernal did not consider speakers of Proto-Bantu in his analysis. It is the author’s contention, from the linguistic contents, that speakers of Proto-Bantu played an active part at the time of the expansion of Proto-Afro-Asiatic speakers in the Rift Valley of East Africa. These Proto-Bantu speakers going through the savannah formed part of the migration to Egypt. The Bantu languages together with other indigenous languages fused together and became embedded to form the Proto-Egyptian language. It is for this reason that the Ancient Egyptian language contains a substantial amount of Proto-Bantu or Bantu roots.

However Guthrie speculated that before the Proto-Bantu expansion from Zaire, there had been several pre-Bantu stages, at which time the Bantu ancestors lived far to the north around Lake Chad. One group from this area made its way to Zaire and became the Proto-Bantu. The Proto-Bantu speakers and Proto-Afro-Asiatic speakers lived along side each other. They traded together, shared and exchanged common vocabularies of words.

Source

This migration detailed in the passage above which brought CEA's and Ethiopic  Afrisan speakers down the Nile to settle ancient Egypt, did not stop when they reached ancient Egypt. The evidence in both populations being involved is indisputable as E1b1 (Ethiopic/Horner) and Sickle Cell Anemia (CEA) trails follow the path to the tee. Some of these populations (like the Lemba) then reentered Africa from Yemen.

#2: Even Van Sertima in the very speech YOU posted says that Yirubas didn't come from Egypt, but they and the Egyptians are the children of an older culture.

The problem with this is that my argument is not relying on research from Sertima. My argument is relying on African oral traditions and supporting research which is the basis of other Africanist (and actually African) scholars like Theophile Obenga and Cheihk Anta Diop. We know that ancient Egypt came from a much older culture which happens to be Nubia. Is that not common knowledge by now? The Pleistocene Nubians are our (CEA) ancestors, and their expansion northward into Egypt (along with Ethiopic Afrisan speakers) over 12,000 years ago is proven by the age of the Sphinx being over 12,000 years old. The lion's body on the Sphinx corresponds with the Age/House/Time Period of the Leo, which is one of those facts that Zahi Hawass and the rest of the liars do not want to let out. 



Forensic analysis done in the 90's confirms the "true Negro-ness" of the Sphinx's face. The narrator even makes reference to the Zulu oral tradition of coming from ancient Egypt as an explanation for the face representing a "typical black African"/"True Negro" (as he stated). 

#3: Why do you choose to ignore the claims of the Yoruba who say that they originated in Ile Ife and were always there?

If DNA evidence did not link Contemporary Equatorial Africans to ancient Egypt then I would not have paid too much mind to the claim, but it does!....How would you explain the fact that modern Egyptians according to all of these ancient DNA test have nothing in common with ancient Egyptians? Hmmm. Ancient Egyptian DNA matches those Contemporary Equatorial Africans who actually claim to have came from ancient Egypt, which as far as I'm concerned validates their claims of origin. According one of those studies modern Egyptians have an African genetic base (Ethiopic/Horner), but while the "Egyptian Gene" (E1b1) was not found in the ancient Egyptian mummies studied the marker characterizes modern Egyptians. Modern Egyptians to have little to no traces of the other African marker which characterizes the ancient Egyptian studied (M2/source).

The Late Period in ancient Egypt brought about "great biological change" in ancient Egypt:

Nutter (1958) noted affinities between the Badarian and Naqada samples, a feature that Strouhal (1971) attributed to their skulls possessing “Negroid” traits. Keita (1992), using craniometrics, discovered that the Badarian series is distinctly different from the later Egyptian series, a conclusion that is mostly confirmed here. In the current analysis, the Badari sample more closely clusters with the Naqada sample and the Kerma sample. However, it also groups with the later pooled sample from Dynasties XVIII–XXV. -- Godde K. (2009) An Examination of Nubian and Egyptian biological distances: Support for biological diffusion or in situ development? Homo. 2009;60(5):389-404.

It was during the Late Dynastic period that the ancient Egyptian population experienced great biological change from "Negroid" to more "Mediterranean" (does not equate to white), which ironically was the same time period that the first civilization springs up in Nigeria (Nok). What little is known about this mysterious ancient civilization that springs up in Nigeria during the ancient Egyptians Late Dynastic period is that the people practiced ancient Egyptian religion/Osiris worship. With all evidence taken into account it sounds like this great biological change was really the migration that took CEAs out of Egypt, into Kush and eventually into our contemporary locations. Are you really scared to put two and two together? Is this exodus of M2 carrying Africans from Northeast Africa and particularly Egypt and Sudan not reflected by the complete absence of M2 lineages in that same region today?


Migration routes from Egypt/Kush 






Now just think...who is going to tell you this great information about your ancestry...White people? Enlightened Africans are well aware of these facts as common knowledge. We have been taught however to not give them the time of day, and to instead only believe that which has been verified by the same people who tried to mislead the world with the Piltdown man.  

I don't think it's impossable that from time to time people from the East, (pick a place of your choice), could have found their way to West Africa, but they would have been small in number and they would not have been coming into a virgin land

You say this, but you cannot provide any evidence for a migration which brought M2 carrying, Niger-Congo speaking, Pleistocene Nubian ancestors into Western Africa around 12,000 years ago. Christopher Ehret states that this migration took place at the same time that Ethiopic, Afrisan speakers moved northward into Egypt...He makes NO MENTION of the proven northward migration which brought our (CEAs) ancestors north to settle ancient Egypt. Anansi stated even that this northward migration took place. Yet Western linguist (like Ehret and Greenberg) and scholars have tried to erase this event from history. Generally speaking acknowledging the truth which is the involvement/domination of our ancestors in this migration/spreading of civilization (even into Pre-Indo European Europe) is the "White Western World 's" nightwear.

But, #1: there's genetic evidence to show that SOME of them are indeed descended from Jews, But #2: not all of them carry those genes.

Lemba DNA is 60% haplogroup J...and they look the way that they do. 



The Lemba clearly came from the Middle East. Now how YOU (with all of your denial) wants to go about trying to explain how "Bantu" populations wound up in the Levant/Arabian Peninsula, "absorbed" haplogroup J and wound back up in southern Africa without the migration above is up to YOU. If you want to jump over hurdles (and fall) just to avoid acknowledging that this world altering migratory event involving us (CEAs) then that's on you. You know that it makes sense. 

Is there any genetic evidence to support a semetic origin for Yorubas, or Igbos. Is there any genetic evidence to show an Egyptian origin?

For one I've not claimed that the Yoruba descended from Jews, I said Igbo. Secondly what is "Semitic", the word isn't mentioned in the Bible? It has been demonstrated already that the ancient Egyptian language which has been designated as an "Afrisan" language and closely related to "Semitic" is in fact a "Niger-Congo" language which is still spoken by the people of Equatorial Africa. The ancient Hebrews were rebelling ancient Egyptians who migrated into Canaan/Israel. The Israelites were nothing more than black ancient Egyptians.



I didn't make the map, but the migration route that's missing is the Mediterranean sea route where Hebrews were taken to West Africa aboard Phoenician ships.



"We are original Hebrew and we are scattered all over" 

I give MY PEOPLE the credit for creating their own cultures and civilizations.

You don't even want to listen to your tribal elders (not just the Yourba) who all say that they came from ancient Egypt/Nubia/the East. You don't want to acknowledge to that M2 (OUR lineage) migrated to Equatorial from the Sudan/Kush, and that logically this fact dismisses the Ife Ife origins of the M2 lineage carrying Yoruba. You don't want to acknowledge the hundred plus of word matches between Yoruba (and every other Niger-Congo language) and ancient Egypt. You don't acknowledge that Igbos built step pyramids in Nigeria. You don't want to acknowledge that the oldest civilization in Nigeria had an ancient Egyptian way of life.

I don't know if you think that it's somehow "noble" to deny our ancient Egyptian descent, but at the end of the day "denial" (a logical fallacy) is all that you are putting out in response to these facts. You're just as bad as a Eurocentrist, because emotions not facts are the only thing driving your denial.


Straight back braids


Wake Up.

[anansi]

Asante I am not trying to brow beat you man but this one of the reasons I am critical some of the stuff on this thread.
Now who is the guy above?? is he an Afrasian speaker a Niger Kodofanian a Nilo Saharan??..is he a "true Negro" and therefore not us or is he us??
and if he is a true Negro then why does he fall short of------------------------> 

Narmer and Mike Tyson in phenotype:
I am sorry but I can't let that Negroid vs True Negro stuff go it makes  absolutely no sense whatsoever especially when anyone tries to 
tie it with genetics and phenotype.  Now you crossover into the use of Mediterranean which is bunk as old school anthropologist used it to imply
mixture or non African otherness.. Ok lets clear the air..are you suggesting that narrow featured Africans are basically mixed? 

[asante]

Feb 14, 2014 2:00:34 GMT -5 anansi said:

Now who is the guy above?? is he an Afrasian speaker a Niger Kodofanian a Nilo Saharan??..is he a "true Negro" and therefore not us or is he us??

The person in the picture is in fact an Omotic speaker (Karo) from the Omo Valley in Ethiopia. Is Omotic an Afrisan language? Traditionally it has been "troublesome" to Western linguist to label it as such. In fact recent studies conclude that Omotic is an independent language (source) rather than Afrisan. Cambridge scholars also wrote a piece on Omotic a few years back:

Cambridge, Wednesday, 15 November 2006

Omotic livestock terminology and its implications for the history of Afroasiatic

The Omotic languages were the last branch of Afroasiatic to be formally recognised, and even today, some researchers would like to see them re-united with Cushitic. Nonetheless, following Bender (1975) and Hayward (1989), the acceptance of the distinctive nature of Omotic is the dominant paradigm. Bender (2000, 2003) has presented an overall picture of Omotic phonology, morphology and lexicon and collected together the majority of references as well as a variety of unpublished materials. The features of Omotic that continue to persuade authors such as Lamberti & Sottile (1997:19) it should be considered ‘West Cushitic’ are though by most researchers to be simply evidence of extensive long-term interactions between the two Afroasiatic branches.

Most likely, however, is that Omotic is simply older than the other branches of the phylum and this is in turn is because SW Ethiopia is the homeland of the phylum. If this is the case, then Omotic may well throw light on the primary expansion of Afroasiatic. Archaeology in this part of Ethiopia is too weak to advance any clear correlations, but it is possible to examine the Afroasiatic languages for possible reconstructions that may point to the lifeways of early speakers (Blench 2006).

link





Clearly you can see that Omotic speakers are overwhelmingly comprised of M2 lineages (US), and as you can see they even generally looks like us. 





In Ethiopia's case it's alot like the heterogeneous black populations in parts of Nigeria, Chad and Niger where you have an intermixing of Niger-Congo, Nilo-Saharan and of course Afrisan (it is Ethiopia) phenotypes and genetics. None the less these M2 lineage carrying, generally broad featured ("negroid") southern Ethiopian populations (who are in close proximity to CEA's) also show cultural affinities to ancient Egypt (my entire point with that picture).

and if he is a true Negro then why does he fall short of------------------------> 

CEA's don't all have super wide olive stuffed nostrils (I for one don't)...(Igbos)



But then again are you really this unaware of the identity and unique qualities of your own people? 

[truthteacher2007]

Feb 14, 2014 22:40:10 GMT -5 asante said:

Feb 14, 2014 2:00:34 GMT -5 anansi said:

Now who is the guy above?? is he an Afrasian speaker a Niger Kodofanian a Nilo Saharan??..is he a "true Negro" and therefore not us or is he us??

The person in the picture is in fact an Omotic speaker (Karo) from the Omo Valley in Ethiopia. Is Omotic an Afrisan language? Traditionally it has been "troublesome" to Western linguist to label it as such. In fact recent studies conclude that Omotic is an independent language (source) rather than Afrisan. Cambridge scholars also wrote a piece on Omotic a few years back:

Cambridge, Wednesday, 15 November 2006

Omotic livestock terminology and its implications for the history of Afroasiatic

The Omotic languages were the last branch of Afroasiatic to be formally recognised, and even today, some researchers would like to see them re-united with Cushitic. Nonetheless, following Bender (1975) and Hayward (1989), the acceptance of the distinctive nature of Omotic is the dominant paradigm. Bender (2000, 2003) has presented an overall picture of Omotic phonology, morphology and lexicon and collected together the majority of references as well as a variety of unpublished materials. The features of Omotic that continue to persuade authors such as Lamberti & Sottile (1997:19) it should be considered ‘West Cushitic’ are though by most researchers to be simply evidence of extensive long-term interactions between the two Afroasiatic branches.

Most likely, however, is that Omotic is simply older than the other branches of the phylum and this is in turn is because SW Ethiopia is the homeland of the phylum. If this is the case, then Omotic may well throw light on the primary expansion of Afroasiatic. Archaeology in this part of Ethiopia is too weak to advance any clear correlations, but it is possible to examine the Afroasiatic languages for possible reconstructions that may point to the lifeways of early speakers (Blench 2006).

link





Clearly you can see that Omotic speakers are overwhelmingly comprised of M2 lineages (US), and as you can see they even generally looks like us. 





In Ethiopia's case it's alot like the heterogeneous black populations in parts of Nigeria, Chad and Niger where you have an intermixing of Niger-Congo, Nilo-Saharan and of course Afrisan (it is Ethiopia) phenotypes and genetics. None the less these M2 lineage carrying, generally broad featured ("negroid") southern Ethiopian populations (who are in close proximity to CEA's) also show cultural affinities to ancient Egypt (my entire point with that picture).

and if he is a true Negro then why does he fall short of------------------------> 

CEA's don't all have super wide olive stuffed nostrils (I for one don't)...(Igbos)



But then again are you really this unaware of the identity and unique qualities of your own people? 

What the hell do you mean by olive stuffed nostrils?

[anansi]

Asante

Clearly you can see that Omotic speakers are overwhelmingly comprised of M2 lineages (US), and as you can see they even generally looks like us.

Again who is this "US" you keep talking about,and do you realized you just admitted to variation with the examples you just gave??
so if there is variations even among groups you I.D as "US" Ibos and yourself included then your argument failed in it's attempt to cover a certain look with a language group.

But then again are you really this unaware of the identity and unique qualities of your own people?

Ahem" excuse YOU!! but my people(ancient and Modern) come in all shapes sizes colors and language groups along with genetic variations,you see I am a Pan Africanist at heart and so will reject any notion of divide and conqueror by Eurocentrist argument of 90yrs ago with a racist bent aka Hamitic vs Negro theory which was debunked over 40 decades ago or more as patently unscientific and unsupportable, but is held tightly today by racial ideologist.

Now back to the Omoro they are however not Niger Kordofians but is in fact some what related to Nilo Saharan and Cushtic and again there are variations among them as to your own example given.

[truthteacher2007]

With regards to the Lemba, the argument that since they are J haplotype this somehow proves that the real semites were black is so false. First of all, the percentage you quote, I've never seen that stated anywhere. I have seen that somewhere in the area of 50% of the male line had the Cohenim marker. So what is the other 50%? Answer, local South African.

Haplotype does not always plot with apperances. My father's skin is white, his eyes are blue green, my skin is darker than his, my eyes are brown. Niether of us look like a Central African, but that's where family history and the DNA results I got said we came from. Science and history matched up. There is a lot of European ancestry on his side of the family, but it came in on the maternal line. This is why his grand mother looked European. Why is this important? It confirms what I'm saying.

So with the Lemba, although they may carry the J haplotype, the maternal line is native Southern African. Obviously a small gropu of Jews migrated there and were absorbed into the community. They married local women, whose off spring married local women and so on and so forth. Therefore, even though they have a non African paternal line, they inherited the dominant physical features of the local people. Just consider how many Afro Americans have European male lines. So by you're line of reasoning, does this mean that colonial Europeans were black? www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRcex9NEJZE

[asante]

Feb 17, 2014 0:04:51 GMT -5 anansi said:

Again who is this "US" you keep talking about

The M2 lineage carrying, Niger Congo speaking populations who have a morphological pattern that was described as "true Negro" or 'Negroid" who today dominate Equatorial Africa (or "CEA's) and their descendants "US". Why do you keep trying to deny the existence this collective group as our own distinct group of Africans? We don't have a name for ourselves collectively so it is difficult (to a degree) to make reference to this distinct group of Africans. Stop trying to give me flack for making reference to this distinct group of Africans to help make this case. 

,and do you realized you just admitted to variation with the examples you just gave??

"Admitted variation" what the Hell..who said that everyone in our group look alike? We all conform to a general pattern "true Negroid" pattern yes, but variation among our own is indeed great is it not? A lot of African Americans still haven't figured out that even with our varying degrees of non African admixture we can still find our physical types/"twin" throughout West Africa (Nigeria for the more mixed ones). I heard a Yoruba joke on an Akan from Ghana by saying that they have the widest noses in Africa.

(Akan/Ghanian)

Igbo


That to me would hint at physical distinctions even among the same group of Africans.

Ahem" excuse YOU!! but my people(ancient and Modern) come in all shapes sizes colors and language groups along with genetic variations,

So basically African is one in your views. Cool!

Now back to the Omoro they are however not Niger Kordofians but is in fact some what related to Nilo Saharan and Cushtic and again there are variations among them as to your own example given.

Who said anything about "Omoro" Ethiopians? We were discussing Omotic speakers. 

[anansi]

Asante

The M2 lineage carrying, Niger Congo speaking populations who have a morphological pattern that was described as "true Negro" or 'Negroid" who today dominate Equatorial Africa (or "CEA's) and their descendants "US". Why do you keep trying to deny the existence this collective group as our own distinct group of Africans? We don't have a name for ourselves collectively so it is difficult (to a degree) to make reference to this distinct group of Africans. Stop trying to give me flack for making reference to this distinct group of Africans to help make this case.

And yet there are variations among them,as there are variations among Afrasian speakers and Nilo Saharans that shows morphological bias in any direction to a greater or lesser extent.

You said we don't have a collective name for ourselves..really?? and who does?? if it's language then we have Niger Kordofanian as a super family just like Afrasian,Nilo Saharan,Khosian etc.I do not see the reasoning on insisting on using the term "True Negro" or Negroid since that term could be used and have been used for groups out side the Niger Kordofanian super family.

"Admitted variation" what the Hell..who said that everyone in our group look alike? We all conform to a general pattern "true Negroid" pattern yes, but variation among our own is indeed great is it not?

Except when those patterns violates your general pattern as discussed between Hausa and Fulani or Masai vs Anuk or Tusti vs Hutu, the Omotic speakers and Omoro the ethnic group are both Ethiopic as they are generally Ethiopians.