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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 14, 2020 7:18:09 GMT -5
Can't remember seeing this before. Source? I need to do a deep dive. Got it !! Published in European Journal of Human Genetics 2010 Human Y chromosome haplogroup R-V88: a paternal genetic record of early mid Holocene trans-Saharan connections and the spread of Chadic languages DNA nor aDNA can tell if a person's a Jew V88 R1b1a* C&N Afr (limited Eur Asia) M18 R1b1a1 Eur V8 R1b1a2 C Afr V35 R1b1a3* Eur V7 R1b1a3a Eur V69 R1b1a4 C&N Afr Updated V88 network solicited.
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 13, 2020 10:52:52 GMT -5
Here is more data. But here is the kicker from D'Antanasio et al 2018. I posed the question. What percentage of AFRAMS male carry E-M2? Assuming E-M2 from the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. Weeeellll the answer is only 22% of AFRAM males carry E-M2!!!!! does that mean the more than %75 of AFRAMs are Pre-Colombian. Man...this shyte is blowing wide open. Are the remaining males in the America's pre-Colombian? The big question is "how did they pull off the deception?"….. if that is what happened? Thanks to Sage for reminding me of this paper and have me re-read it for this topic. When I posted on the paper many years ago the Theme was the age of E-M2 and it could not possibly be of West African origin. Now this paper is serving other purposes.
Quote:
"E-V4990 is a Moroccan clade dated to < 4.49 kya (the
time estimate of the upstream node). Interestingly, it is
the terminal branch of a nested topology, which divides
western Africa from Morocco. We found a relevant proportion
(~ 22 %) of African-American subjects belonging
to the E-M2 haplogroup (Additional file 1: Table S5).
These groups have been heavily influenced by the Atlantic
slave trade, which took place between the XV and
XIX centuries and of which the source populations were
mainly sub-Saharan people. Consistent with the
autosomal data [55], these subjects have been found to
be very similar to the source African populations in their
E-M2 sub-haplogroup composition (Additional file 2:
Figure S4)."
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 13, 2020 10:17:47 GMT -5
What is this author telling us? Answer - other researchers have been lying to us all along. In addition they have been concealing data and skewing the results. But we know most researchers skew the results to support their agenda. Here this researcher rightfully stating what I have been saying all along. That is why we need to start doing our own analysis. Get involved and stop repeating the narrative
Quote from D'Atanasio et al 2018
"In the set of 104 samples from our lab collection, we
identified 5966 SNPs. Interestingly, 3044 variants (51 %)
out of the 5966 were not reported in previous studies
[30, 48, 50, 51] and this figure is significantly greater
than that reported by Hallast et al. [50] (51 vs 36.6 %,
Chi-squared test: p < 2.2 × 10−16), despite the fact the
experimental approaches were similar (target sequencing) and the number of sequenced samples by Hallast
and collegues [50] was about four times higher
(Additional file 2: Figure S1). After the inclusion of the
46 samples from the literature [45–49], the total number
of variants increased to 7544 (Additional file 1: Table
S2). We used all 7544 SNPs in the whole set of 150 subjects to reconstruct a maximum parsimony tree (Fig. 2a),
which was found to be coherent with the recently published world-wide Y phylogenies [48, 51].
By calibration with the four archeologically dated specimens, we obtained a mutation rate of 0.735 × 10−9
/site/ year, which is consistent with previously published estimates [47, 51, 52] and which was used to obtain an accurate estimate of the coalescence age of the tree nodes, with
a particular focus on the four trans-Saharan clades. We
obtained the time estimates using two different approaches: Rho statistics (Table 1) and the BEAST method.
We performed two different BEAST runs, under a strict
or a relaxed clock, respectively (Additional file 1: Table
S3). The obtained point values were found to be highly
concordant (Pearson test, R2 > 0.99; p < 2.2 × 10−16), as
previously observed [19] (Additional file 2: Figure S2). For
this reason, hereafter we only report and discuss the time
estimates based on the Rho statistics (Fig. 2b)."
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 13, 2020 10:00:48 GMT -5
Quote:
"In this context, rare Y lineages with a relic geographic
distribution can be highly informative regarding human
migrations across the Sahara. Thus, considering their
frequency distribution, the four trans-Saharan lineages
A3-M13, E-M2, E-M78 and R-V88 could represent the
remains of the Saharan MSY genetic landscape before
the desertification, contrary to the usual interpretation
involving recent gene flow events such as the trans-
Saharan Arab slave trade [42–44]."
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 12, 2020 22:05:52 GMT -5
Nice deep dive Sage. I have been reading so many papers and writing so many post I forgot about this paper. Maybe we can pinpoint which RV88.
MtDNA L is important but the mtDNA H major clade is more significant
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 10, 2020 20:12:28 GMT -5
We keep missing the big picture.......regardless of what we were taught, what we thought, what we read. The FACTS are 1. Majority lineage is ancient African males and Ancient European females. R-V88 is dated about 12,000 years ago mtDNA H is dated >20,000 years ago E-M2 is dated about 5000 years ago and was NOT in West Africa until about AfTER 3000BC R1b-M269 is dated about 6000BC. a deep dive is needed of so called Native Americans - www.familytreedna.com/public/AmericanIndian?iframe=yresultsAre these R1b-M269 really R-V88? The author is either confused or deliberately lying. These are NOT Sephardic Jews. These are African men. When and how they got there is open to debate.
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 9, 2020 6:03:27 GMT -5
But here is the puzzle. Do AFRAMS also carry RV88/R269? We are told some AFRAM males carry RM269. But is it really RV88? If AFRAMS carry RV88/M269 then we may conclude that yes, Africans were here in the Americas BEFORE Columbus. More data is needed. Slaves? Good question and the typical response. But this is not what the author is suggesting. This is not the spin. The spin? These were "Jews". Sephardic Jew. They are attributing the R-V88 to Sephardic Jews. Really? R-V88 has highest frequency in West Africa. 2nd point. R-V88 is very ancient. The author dates the arrival of R-V88 in the 1500's......based upon "documented" material not aDNA. Interestingly, the R-V88, is NOT found in the general AFRAM populace. The author has assigned an African gene to Sephardic Jews.] Ok. So the 'slave' argument is out. So what is the story ? These R-V88 were already in place in that area and then joined by later group in the 1500s....??
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 8, 2020 5:36:49 GMT -5
Slaves? Good question and the typical response. But this is not what the author is suggesting. This is not the spin. The spin? These were "Jews". Sephardic Jew. They are attributing the R-V88 to Sephardic Jews. Really? R-V88 has highest frequency in West Africa. 2nd point. R-V88 is very ancient. The author dates the arrival of R-V88 in the 1500's......based upon "documented" material not aDNA. Interestingly, the R-V88, is NOT found in the general AFRAM populace. The author has assigned an African gene to Sephardic Jews. If the majority of males carry V88, are these recent arrivals from areas in Africa who carried V88 or more ancient presence ?? Devils advocate: arent these 'slaves'/captives' ?? Lumbees are known to be a racially mixed group. 'In the first federal census of 1790, the ancestors of the Lumbee were enumerated as Free Persons of Color, another term used for a wide variety of non-White people including, non-reservation American Indians, mixed race of American Indian/European, and mixed race African/European.'
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 6, 2020 6:33:55 GMT -5
Forest for the trees. R V88. The Vast majority of Lumbee are R V88. The Majority female are mtDNA H.
DNA do not lie but can be misinterpreted.
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Anyways quote:
"Discussion One of the distinct advantages of DNA testing, as compared to documents, for historical research is that DNA consists of biological material which, when competently analyzed in a laboratory, does not lie. Documents can be lost, forged, altered and misplaced, as has happened in several well-known cases. 80 DNA—as a set of chemical molecules—is apolitical, nonreligious, disinterested in disputes over national boundaries, and impartial to claims of sovereignty. Although British language and culture came to dominate North America, it is important for us to recognize that the English were beaten to the Americas’shores by the Spanish, French and, as the present paper argues, even Croatians, during the 1400s and 1500s. After the American Revolution, the majority of North American colonists continued their British traditions; while those persons who were Native American, Spanish, French, or Croatian were relegated to remote locales on the continent, such as, Oklahoma, Southern Texas, Mexico, Acadian Canada, New Orleans, and Robeson County, NC. Little Croatoan Island, its ethnically mixed inhabitants having migrated fifty miles inland and taking their secrets with them, was renamed Hatteras and its true history over-written with the celebration of British Jamestown. But the true ancestry of these early arrivals has lived on, rediscovered through the advance of human genetics."
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 6, 2020 6:16:51 GMT -5
In summary. Just the FACTS!!!
1. The male line of Lumbee(Native American) are mainly African. Ancient African ie RV88. 2. The female line is mainly mtDNA H and subclades
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 6, 2020 6:04:08 GMT -5
They are classify African genes as "Sephardic" Jew....... =====
Quote:
" Initial scouting expeditions for a location suitable for a trading colony were undertaken by Ralegh and his “Portuguese” pilot, Simon Ferndandez, who was very likely of Sephardic descent.15 "
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 5, 2020 19:30:33 GMT -5
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 5, 2020 16:06:45 GMT -5
R-V88 indicates an ancient African presence. There is also E-M2
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 5, 2020 16:05:27 GMT -5
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 5, 2020 16:04:47 GMT -5
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