rivertemz
Scribe
The thirst for Knowledge is strong in this one
Posts: 211 
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Post by rivertemz on Jul 31, 2014 5:11:22 GMT -5
Another weak attempt from @ben with his random rhetoric.
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Post by nebsen on Jul 31, 2014 13:39:17 GMT -5
Yeah, they get it, & again they don't. The guy with the beard was the only one that I felt was ready for something really radical. The Asian guy less so, only seeing the same old middle Eastern or get a Polynesian as an Egyptian. The other white guy same old, same old, clueless. I thought how this review would be if they had an aware Black person on the panel ? Most people esp. in America have been so brain washed they still see Egypt in the Middle East, not an African country. History is not very appreciated by most in America, so African history for most, is still the" Dark Continent". Hopefully in the near future that you have someone with the stones, & I really don't care what race, or gender, to really take African history to the next level on film. But for now, no one has the vision, or guts to do the job ! If they do they are probably still in film school.
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Post by africurious on Jul 31, 2014 16:43:29 GMT -5
Yes the casting is annoying but how much can we blame them i.e. the casters, modern Hollywood? While ancient Egyptians may have finally been recognized as Africans by mainstream scholarship, the fact is that many (I wouldn't be surprised if most) of those said mainstream scholars don't see ancient Egyptians and other "north africans" as being the same as other Africans i.e. the ones called black or "sub-saharan". Further, blacks in egypt are usually passed off as slaves, foot soldiers or others of non-high rank by said scholars (though they do allow for the odd high ranking black or groups of blacks). Toby Wilkinson and Frank Yurco are examples of this kind of scholars. If these scholars still portray ancient Egyptians as white/off-white/just not black in their books, articles and the same is done in pop media that has the air of scholarship (discovery channel, history channel) then what do you expect from Hollywood? That is the impression they get from much of today's scholarship and past scholarship is even worse. I highly doubt the gen public's and hollywood's perception will change until the perception among gen AE scholarship changes.
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Post by nebsen on Aug 1, 2014 3:00:57 GMT -5
Yes the casting is annoying but how much can we blame them i.e. the casters, modern Hollywood? While ancient Egyptians may have finally been recognized as Africans by mainstream scholarship, the fact is that many (I wouldn't be surprised if most) of those said mainstream scholars don't see ancient Egyptians and other "north africans" as being the same as other Africans i.e. the ones called black or "sub-saharan". Further, blacks in egypt are usually passed off as slaves, foot soldiers or others of non-high rank by said scholars (though they do allow for the odd high ranking black or groups of blacks). Toby Wilkinson and Frank Yurco are examples of this kind of scholars. If these scholars still portray ancient Egyptians as white/off-white/just not black in their books, articles and the same is done in pop media that has the air of scholarship (discovery channel, history channel) then what do you expect from Hollywood? That is the impression they get from much of today's scholarship and past scholarship is even worse. I highly doubt the gen public's and hollywood's perception will change until the perception among gen AE scholarship changes. I'm not sure about what you call mainstream scholars ? Discovery Channel & History channel I believe use writers & staff from National Geographic, so they are not going to really show the ancient Egyptians as Africans/Black. Their are other scholars that are dealing with the historical truth about ancient Egypt, but one never gets to read or hear from them, some in Europe . We need to read their works & bring them up to the forefront. At present I don't have their names , but at another time I can provide. My point is, their are other viewpoints that gets sidelined or shot down by the so called "mainstream". No, the general pubic are not privy to all the detailed historical facts, but many in the African American community are more aware about the ancient Egyptians being African/Black than we give them credit for, esp. those of the so call Hip Hop generation. One see's it all over You Tube; again they might not have all the detailed historical facts right, but they are aware. What would really help is an excellent documentary on the subject that could be shown in theaters, schools, communities, & DVD about the subject matter.It does not always have to be a Hollywood film, to deal with this issue. It could lay down the ground work for films later. Remember the debate started in the public eye in the late 80's & early 90's one being Bernal's " Black Athena" that rocked the academic world ! |
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rivertemz
Scribe
The thirst for Knowledge is strong in this one
Posts: 211
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Post by rivertemz on Aug 1, 2014 5:10:50 GMT -5
Yes the casting is annoying but how much can we blame them i.e. the casters, modern Hollywood? While ancient Egyptians may have finally been recognized as Africans by mainstream scholarship, the fact is that many (I wouldn't be surprised if most) of those said mainstream scholars don't see ancient Egyptians and other "north africans" as being the same as other Africans i.e. the ones called black or "sub-saharan". Further, blacks in egypt are usually passed off as slaves, foot soldiers or others of non-high rank by said scholars (though they do allow for the odd high ranking black or groups of blacks). Toby Wilkinson and Frank Yurco are examples of this kind of scholars. If these scholars still portray ancient Egyptians as white/off-white/just not black in their books, articles and the same is done in pop media that has the air of scholarship (discovery channel, history channel) then what do you expect from Hollywood? That is the impression they get from much of today's scholarship and past scholarship is even worse. I highly doubt the gen public's and hollywood's perception will change until the perception among gen AE scholarship changes. I'm not sure about what you call mainstream scholars ? Discovery Channel & History channel I believe use writers & staff from National Geographic, so they are not going to really show the ancient Egyptians as Africans/Black. Their are other scholars that are dealing with the historical truth about ancient Egypt, but one never gets to read or hear from them, some in Europe . We need to read their works & bring them up to the forefront. At present I don't have their names , but at another time I can provide. My point is, their are other viewpoints that gets sidelined or shot down by the so called "mainstream". No, the general pubic are not privy to all the detailed historical facts, but many in the African American community are more aware about the ancient Egyptians being African/Black than we give them credit for, esp. those of the so call Hip Hop generation. One see's it all over You Tube; again they might not have all the detailed historical facts right, but they are aware. What would really help is an excellent documentary on the subject that could be shown in theaters, schools, communities, & DVD about the subject matter.It does not always have to be a Hollywood film, to deal with this issue. It could lay down the ground work for films later. Remember the debate started in the public eye in the late 80's & early 90's one being Bernal's " Black Athena" that rocked the academic world ! The answer to your idea is on point with what is needed and what is being done right now. Watch The Hidden Colors 1,2&3 Documentaries directed by Tariq Nasheed. Everything our communities need! |
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Post by africurious on Aug 1, 2014 9:15:55 GMT -5
Yes the casting is annoying but how much can we blame them i.e. the casters, modern Hollywood? While ancient Egyptians may have finally been recognized as Africans by mainstream scholarship, the fact is that many (I wouldn't be surprised if most) of those said mainstream scholars don't see ancient Egyptians and other "north africans" as being the same as other Africans i.e. the ones called black or "sub-saharan". Further, blacks in egypt are usually passed off as slaves, foot soldiers or others of non-high rank by said scholars (though they do allow for the odd high ranking black or groups of blacks). Toby Wilkinson and Frank Yurco are examples of this kind of scholars. If these scholars still portray ancient Egyptians as white/off-white/just not black in their books, articles and the same is done in pop media that has the air of scholarship (discovery channel, history channel) then what do you expect from Hollywood? That is the impression they get from much of today's scholarship and past scholarship is even worse. I highly doubt the gen public's and hollywood's perception will change until the perception among gen AE scholarship changes. I'm not sure about what you call mainstream scholars ? Discovery Channel & History channel I believe use writers & staff from National Geographic, so they are not going to really show the ancient Egyptians as Africans/Black. Their are other scholars that are dealing with the historical truth about ancient Egypt, but one never gets to read or hear from them, some in Europe . We need to read their works & bring them up to the forefront. At present I don't have their names , but at another time I can provide. My point is, their are other viewpoints that gets sidelined or shot down by the so called "mainstream". No, the general pubic are not privy to all the detailed historical facts, but many in the African American community are more aware about the ancient Egyptians being African/Black than we give them credit for, esp. those of the so call Hip Hop generation. One see's it all over You Tube; again they might not have all the detailed historical facts right, but they are aware. What would really help is an excellent documentary on the subject that could be shown in theaters, schools, communities, & DVD about the subject matter.It does not always have to be a Hollywood film, to deal with this issue. It could lay down the ground work for films later. Remember the debate started in the public eye in the late 80's & early 90's one being Bernal's " Black Athena" that rocked the academic world ! Mainstream scholars are those who have degrees from accredited tertiary institutions and whose profession is based on said degree and study of AE. In other words, professional historians, anthropologists, etc. who study AE. Internet "scholars" and those with no formal training aren't mainstream regardless of the books or other material they publish in non-academic/non-scholarly sources. I gave 2 examples of mainstream scholars earlier. Why would Discovery Channel or History Channel's writers give a portrayal that is contrary to what is common perception among mainstream academics? And, you seem to be missing the point. The gen public isn't interested in reading a whole bunch of scholarly work, watching a whole bunch of scholarly documentaries or even interested in knowing a great deal about history in general, just as the gen public isn't interested in knowing a whole lot about physics, biology, musicology, whatever. Only certain ppl are interested in knowing details about certain subjects that intrigue them. So, to understand the truth about AE's the gen public needs to be informed from pop sources. Why would pop sources in general differ drastically from what they glean from mainstream scholarship? Ppl go to a museum and the AE section is in the "near east" history section, which is separate from the African section. There seems to be only one well-known museum among the many in Europe or America where it is accepted that the AE's were black. And this all boils down to what mainstream scholarship thinks. Mainstream scholars are increasingly coming around to the truth but it doesn't seem the vast majority has yet accepted it. Until the vast majority comes around, Hollywood will be Hollywood, and most other pop sources will continue to portray AE's incorrectly. |
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Post by nebsen on Aug 1, 2014 11:47:29 GMT -5
I do understand how you are using the word mainstream; but that can also be termed" Status quo" which can be a very intrenched position & crystallization of whats excepted & what is not, even in ivory towers of academia. Just because one has all the right credentials & went to all the right universities does not always make one right. I'm not missing the point just a different POV on the matter. Some like the comfort of the mainstream( Status quo), others like my self are open to the so call mavericks, of the academic world, they tend, to be less stuck in a position & are more open & creative in their pursuits be they Black, white, or in between ; it does not matter as long as they are in search for truth. There is room for both viewpoints & let the people choose which suits them the better. You tend to jump to the conclusion on what the general public esp. AA is ready for;of course they might not be ready for long dense complicated reading best suited for those in the field of Egyptology or related fields; but the best teachers know how to condense, & make palatable to their targeted audience, if their mission is to disseminate information , & not get caught up in their own egos . This is a new century, & new times,so lets not dismiss out of hand what can work or not if they have never been tried.
I'm sure you are aware of Dr. Mario Beatty, his Videos on You Tube On" The Word XSW "Wretched" is to my mind the best of a public scholar that knows what he is talking about & has credentials. His video might have been downloaded here on ESR, if not I can post it.
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Post by nebsen on Aug 6, 2014 13:51:12 GMT -5
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Post by forty2tribes on Aug 19, 2014 17:02:20 GMT -5
noah was a unbiblical pagan movie if the same people that made noah are making this one too it will be the same hollywood is a bunch of atheist commies and they are doing these things to make $$$ so they will not be sticking to historical accuracy if they feel it doesnt make them enough $$ They can't do a historical accurate story of Exodus because that s888 never happened! ....But that's... none of my business..... That’s how I see it. I have never heard anyone explain how it fits into Egyptian history and if the Hebrew god wasn’t trying to convert or teach the Egyptians which obviously he failed to do then what was the point? The entire cast could be black and it would still be a mockery. |
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Post by onlooker on Aug 20, 2014 15:22:46 GMT -5
They can't do a historical accurate story of Exodus because that s888 never happened! ....But that's... none of my business..... That’s how I see it. I have never heard anyone explain how it fits into Egyptian history and if the Hebrew god wasn’t trying to convert or teach the Egyptians which obviously he failed to do then what was the point? The entire cast could be black and it would still be a mockery. Well,I don't know if this helps but according to the text the Israelites came to Egypt because of Joseph who was imprisoned/ enslaved in the land and who later became a leader in the area because he helped the Egyptians escape a famine that plagued several countries. Several Jews later came to Egypt looking for a way to get away from food insecurity and would make that area their home. Sometime after Joseph died the Jews were enslaved and because the Israelites had a covenant with God he used Moses to help get them out of the land. |
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Post by forty2tribes on Aug 21, 2014 16:12:40 GMT -5
That’s how I see it. I have never heard anyone explain how it fits into Egyptian history and if the Hebrew god wasn’t trying to convert or teach the Egyptians which obviously he failed to do then what was the point? The entire cast could be black and it would still be a mockery. Well,I don't know if this helps but according to the text the Israelites came to Egypt because of Joseph who was imprisoned/ enslaved in the land and who later became a leader in the area because he helped the Egyptians escape a famine that plagued several countries. Several Jews later came to Egypt looking for a way to get away from food insecurity and would make that area their home. Sometime after Joseph died the Jews were enslaved and because the Israelites had a covenant with God he used Moses to help get them out of the land. That might fit into the histories better. Allegedly the Lower Egyptians were enslaved by the Hyksos. Since this was way after the Pyramids were built and Egypt isn’t known for chattel slavery it may be that the Hebrews were caught up in Hyksos slavery but were still expelled by the Egyptians. After a few centuries of retelling the story, the story got better and their roll became more divine. someone should do a cartoon meme of clan hats in the movie theater. |
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locdiva
Craftsperson
#1 locdiva
Posts: 65
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Post by locdiva on Aug 28, 2014 10:18:55 GMT -5
It's very important that blacks do not watch/attend these productions. This is my challenge to them: If you know that the movie or TV show is historically inaccurate it is up to you to avoid it. Just because Hollywood makes 'garbage', you don't have to fill your conscious with it. It is long past time that we give this mess, the pass it deserves. All Christians take note. Just because it's "biblical", it's not necessarily correct.  |
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rivertemz
Scribe
The thirst for Knowledge is strong in this one
Posts: 211
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Post by rivertemz on Sept 1, 2014 6:35:29 GMT -5
It's very important that blacks do not watch/attend these productions. This is my challenge to them: If you know that the movie or TV show is historically inaccurate it is up to you to avoid it. Just because Hollywood makes 'garbage', you don't have to fill your conscious with it. It is long past time that we give this mess, the pass it deserves. All Christians take note. Just because it's "biblical", it's not necessarily correct. The storyline in the film itself isn't the same as the storyline in the biblical texts |
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Post by snakepit on Sept 4, 2014 19:28:57 GMT -5
It's very important that blacks do not watch/attend these productions. This is my challenge to them: If you know that the movie or TV show is historically inaccurate it is up to you to avoid it. Just because Hollywood makes 'garbage', you don't have to fill your conscious with it. It is long past time that we give this mess, the pass it deserves. All Christians take note. Just because it's "biblical", it's not necessarily correct. The storyline in the film itself isn't the same as the storyline in the biblical texts Doesn't surprise me at all, but I don't watch Hollywood movies anymore. It's just too much garbage anyways. And as locdiva said, I'll definitely not support historically inaccurate movies. |
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karem
Craftsperson
Posts: 74
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Post by karem on Nov 26, 2014 10:44:35 GMT -5
I've noticed a few people on the net that have done animations with more realistic depictions of what the film cast should look like (which if I can find I'll post on here). Something that stands out to me is that the Hebrews/Asiatics are still depicted as European looking.
Looking at some of the AE wall art that shows people from the southern Levant and taking into account how Moses was viewed by his supposed own people (mistaken for an Egyptian), would someone like Lenny Kravitz not suit the role of Moses better than Christian Bale ?
I saw some pictures from Solonge Knowles wedding and couldn't help think that her husband looked like he walked straight off of an AE wall relief of Asiatics, in my opinion (not going to pollute this thread with spam so yall have to look yourself).
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