NEW FILM-- TRAILER FOR ‘EXODUS: GOD & KINGS’

[truthteacher2007]

It just occurred to me that the casting was done this way to deliberately create controversy and thereby gain it attention and patronage it would have ordinarily lacked. I mean, look at the Noah movie that came out recently. I don't think it broke any box office records. I think they're banking on the controversey attracting people out of curiosity. In any case, it's not on my list of must sees. If it come on HBO for free, maaaaybe I'll take a glance at it. These types of movies never interest me as they tend to be full of historical accuracy and orientalist nonsense.

[nebsen]

Dec 6, 2014 16:31:39 GMT -5 karem said:

I get your point, although I don't believe there is some sort of Jewish conspiracy regarding this particular film, although in the original Moses movie, Ten Commandments there was a definite anti-Egyptian/Orientalist theme being played out - sydney.edu.au/arts/publications/philament/issue19_pdfs/Walis_oriental.pdf

This article while pointing out some real flaws of the film The Ten Commandments, I had problems with the terms " Middle East", &" Orientalist" which as far as I'm concerned is archaic. It harkens back to a time when Ancient Egypt was considered a part of the so called Middle East & not Africa. The same with the term Orientalist in which ancient Egypt was seen as a part of the Orient in culture,& not really African .

What I have noticed about the film the" Ten Commandments" which I have never seen pointed out is, Pharaoh Ramses is really a agnostic or even a atheistic when it comes to believing in the Gods Of ancient Egypt, it is only when his only son dies from his own proclamations of death to the first born of the Hebrews that he turns to one of the powerful Gods of ancient Egypt; even his wife Neferteri is shown doubting the Gods of ancient Egypt when Ramses is praying ; for she states concerning the God who Ramses is praying to that " it is nothing but a statue with the head of a bird". I find this very problematic, for the ancient Egyptians esp. the Pharaoh had great faith & belief esp. in the state God Amun who he derived his powers from; it is not to say that one could not find those who doubted the Gods of ancient Egypt, but the Pharaoh & Queen of ancient Egypt the head of a mighty theocracy, I'm not convinced. I can see from the article that this was a set-up for a counterpoint to Moses all powerful brief in his one God,( Jehovah )& parallels the atheistic state of the Soviet Union, & Germany .

[karem]

I think the use of the term 'Orientalist' fits in in the context of the original Ten Commandments film as the people depicted as Ancient Egyptians were supposed to in some ways represent modern Egyptians/Arabs - a people who at the time were enemies of Israel. If they'd cast black actors for the roles of Egyptians it would of been historically accurate but it wouldn't of fitted in to their political goals.

[nebsen]

Dec 8, 2014 4:37:50 GMT -5 karem said:

I think the use of the term 'Orientalist' fits in in the context of the original Ten Commandments film as the people depicted as Ancient Egyptians were supposed to in some ways represent modern Egyptians/Arabs - a people who at the time were enemies of Israel. If they'd cast black actors for the roles of Egyptians it would of been historically accurate but it wouldn't of fitted in to their political goals.

I'm not convinced of your summation ; for one Cecil B. DeMille made the" Ten Commandments "in 1956 & the construct of a" White Egypt" was still very strong in the subconscious of must in the Western World . One has to put this film in context of the" Civil Rights" movement that was starting ;for this film had a profound impact on African Americans who identified with the Hebrews( being in bondage) & saw the ancient Egyptians as a proxy for oppressive white America. Cecil B. De mille only used local populations Arabs & Sudanese in the Exodus scenes leaving Egypt. Cecil B. Demille, also did something different he introduced Kush into his film with Woody Stode being the King of Kush & his sisters, as equals to the court of Egypt. Also he had very beautiful Black women as servants, Kush ?, in this film . This was such an important event that Ebony magazine devoted an issue to the gorgeous Black Women of " The Ten commandments", & actually showed them on set of the film , I'm still looking for that issue ! So one can parcel out this film in many ways.

[karem]

Thats a very good point and it's given me a new perspective on how the film was viewed in America. Orientalism/Orientalist is archaic but the way Edward Said applied the term was his way of describing how the West viewed the East. I don't believe it was his intention to deny Ancient Egypt Africaness.
The way Fekri Hassan talks about the film and other cases of how Egypt was represented in pop culture in Egypt In The Memory of The World is what made me use the term 'Orientalism';

"As movie making became an attractive medium, the lore of Egypt became one
of its favorite subjects. In the 1956 version of The Ten Commandments, Cecil B.
DeMille, exploited the biblical accounts of the Exodus and Moses to portray
Egyptians as villains and Hebrews as heroes (Serafy 2003 :84) at a time when
Egypt under Gamal Abdel - Nasser had won independence from the British and
had vowed not to recognize the state of Israel and to support the rights of the
Palestinians for their homeland. In the newer medium of television, a series of
documentaries in the 1960s – 1990s began to yield to sensational mythologizing of
ancient Egypt. One such series, Pharaohs and Kings (1995), speculative and biased,
conceived and fronted by David Rohl, presented Egypt as a sinister and eerie place
(Schadla - Hall and Morris 2003 ). It also became fashionable in Hollywood movies
and on TV to orientalize Egypt in a variety of ways, including the staging of lewd,
sensuous women. Cleopatra became an icon of the oriental femme fatale."

[nebsen]

Dec 9, 2014 12:49:45 GMT -5 karem said:

Thats a very good point and it's given me a new perspective on how the film was viewed in America. Orientalism/Orientalist is archaic but the way Edward Said applied the term was his way of describing how the West viewed the East. I don't believe it was his intention to deny Ancient Egypt Africaness.
The way Fekri Hassan talks about the film and other cases of how Egypt was represented in pop culture in Egypt In The Memory of The World is what made me use the term 'Orientalism';

"As movie making became an attractive medium, the lore of Egypt became one
of its favorite subjects. In the 1956 version of The Ten Commandments, Cecil B.
DeMille, exploited the biblical accounts of the Exodus and Moses to portray
Egyptians as villains and Hebrews as heroes (Serafy 2003 :84) at a time when
Egypt under Gamal Abdel - Nasser had won independence from the British and
had vowed not to recognize the state of Israel and to support the rights of the
Palestinians for their homeland. In the newer medium of television, a series of
documentaries in the 1960s – 1990s began to yield to sensational mythologizing of
ancient Egypt. One such series, Pharaohs and Kings (1995), speculative and biased,
conceived and fronted by David Rohl, presented Egypt as a sinister and eerie place
(Schadla - Hall and Morris 2003 ). It also became fashionable in Hollywood movies
and on TV to orientalize Egypt in a variety of ways, including the staging of lewd,
sensuous women. Cleopatra became an icon of the oriental femme fatale."

Thanks for the clarification of the term " Orientalism" as used by Edward Said, & I do understand his usesage of the term; but the term I feel, has a deep connection when applied to ancient Egypt as a way to dissociate ancient Egypt from the rest of Africa, & to put her in the Mideast or the Mediterranean world

This was called " The Beheading Of Africa; " Orientalism was also a art movement of the 19 century that helped make the Mideast, including North Africa, & Egypt" exotic" to the Westren mind & world . Dictionary :
Orientalism, Peoples, countries, or cultures of Asia. So I feel the term should never be used by a thinking person in connection to or with ancient Egypt.

[nebsen]

thegrio.com/2014/12/12/exodus-gods-and-kings-continues-hollywoods-lineage-of-prejudice/


The best article I have read about the controversy of the film," Exodus: Gods & Kings" by Justin Holmes of The Grio.com

[anansi]

Tip o the hat to Zarahan and others here and at ES I think his write-ups made it into the scathing review mentioned by Nesben.

The facts:

Modern scientists, anthropologists and scholars have by and large all dismissed the theories of “Dynastic Race,” which asserts the Ancient Egyptian rulers were people from the Mediterranean or Mesopotamia, and have agreed the Ancient Egyptians were an indigenous black African people from the Sahara region who moved northeast, inward, towards the lush Nile Valley as the Sahara region was destroyed by climate change and desertification.

TheGrio | Hollywood ‘re-whites’ history again with Exodus: Gods and Kings (OPINION)

Bioarchaeologist and anthropologist, PhD. Cornell, Nancy Lovell states the following:

There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sub-Sahara and tropical Africa. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas.

Echoing those findings, a provocative set of studies released by DNA Tribes, a biotechnology/genealogy company in 2012-2013, discovered that the mummies of Pharaohs Amenhotep III, Tutankhamun and more recently Ramses all contain the highest genetic affiliation with people from the African Great Lakes region and other parts of Sub-Saharan Africa — more than any other groups in the world.

link
Now do tell who generally bothered to quote Nancy Lovell,mentioned the Great Lakes region and spread Dna Tribes findings.

[nebsen]

Dec 14, 2014 19:18:54 GMT -5 anansi said:

Tip o the hat to Zarahan and others here and at ES I think his write-ups made it into the scathing review mentioned by Nesben.

The facts:

Modern scientists, anthropologists and scholars have by and large all dismissed the theories of “Dynastic Race,” which asserts the Ancient Egyptian rulers were people from the Mediterranean or Mesopotamia, and have agreed the Ancient Egyptians were an indigenous black African people from the Sahara region who moved northeast, inward, towards the lush Nile Valley as the Sahara region was destroyed by climate change and desertification.

TheGrio | Hollywood ‘re-whites’ history again with Exodus: Gods and Kings (OPINION)

Bioarchaeologist and anthropologist, PhD. Cornell, Nancy Lovell states the following:

There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sub-Sahara and tropical Africa. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas.

Echoing those findings, a provocative set of studies released by DNA Tribes, a biotechnology/genealogy company in 2012-2013, discovered that the mummies of Pharaohs Amenhotep III, Tutankhamun and more recently Ramses all contain the highest genetic affiliation with people from the African Great Lakes region and other parts of Sub-Saharan Africa — more than any other groups in the world.

link
Now do tell who generally bothered to quote Nancy Lovell,mentioned the Great Lakes region and spread Dna Tribes findings.

Anansi, glad to know their is a connection with the article by Justin Holmes of The Grio.com & members here at ESR .But could you be more specific in this connection with members her esp. Zarahan & Nancy Lovell. what stood out for me with this article unlike the plethora of other articles about the controversy, & this film was, one ; they treated the readers like we had intelligence, & some basic understanding about archeology ,& science. They did not dance around the real issue, that many have with this film, unlike other articles I have read. The article was hard hitting, with backing up with real science, unlike others that towed the status quo line, only nipping around the edges of the issue ; like only playing up the Arabs playing Egyptians, or Jews playing Hebrews & leaving out the Black Egyptian aspect, altogether.

The Root.com also did a piece about the Film & controversy, & it was late coming, (on Friday, the day the film opened) & was to me, pretty pedestrian. Their is a You Tube video also concerning this controversy, & mentioned ESR, & might be one of the members here,I'm not sure, but will post the video soon.

[anansi]

Anansi, glad to know their is a connection with the article by Justin Holmes of The Grio.com & members here at ESR .But could you be more specific in this connection with members her esp. Zarahan & Nancy Lovell. what stood out for me with this article unlike the plethora of other articles about the controversy, & this film was, one ; they treated the readers like we had intelligence, & some basic understanding about archeology ,& science.

egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/15
klik^
The first person I know of to spread the Nancy Lovell quotes is Zarahan it's in his collage and text going back to at-least 2010 and I do believe sometime before over at E/S,now add to the fact of including the Great Lakes connection which I theorized on even before the DNA Tribe's report over at E/S but really took off when there was real data per DNA Tribe,before then I was going off cultural links echoing the works of Dr Ben and others,
Btw Al-Takruri if you out there you have a maleware at E/S problem so sayz my computer security.

I am not sure who bought DNA Tribe's findings to our attention but I suspect Xman.
One or two examples that correspond to ESR/ES in the same article maybe an accident but a plethora equals influence,meaning our time here is not wasted.

[zarahan]

Anansi said:
Tip o the hat to Zarahan and others here and at ES I think his write-ups made it into the scathing review mentioned by Nesben.

^^Indeed, Tip O the hat to the folks at Reloaded for keeping the issue alive and
spreading the word. I am glad the people at the Grio actually included a study
quote rather than just the usual protest, which the Euro/Egyp-Arabo sympathizers usually
dismiss/distort as "political," or some sort of "self-esteem" thing to avoid addressing
the issue. That's their standard tactic- quickly minimize, dismiss and avoid. But folks
here are on to the game and are holding feet to fire. We are not doing self-esteem exercises
with this stuff. We have serious science and data behind us in order to:

1-- set the oft distorted record straight

2-- place ancient Egypt in its indigenous African and Nile Valley context

3-- Create a more balanced view of African bio-history- which ties into larger
African patterns such as modern humans, OOA, the Sahara

4-- Learn more about African history for its own sake, in its own right,
without needing "approval" from Euros, Arabists, or whomever.. and without
needing any kind of program, or leader. Just stuff for its own sake..

Others can add other things- its a big tent and does not for example require
anyone to give up his religion, politics etc. There is no monolithic "Afrocentric"
"central headquarters" dictating what people should believe. We have plenty of disagreements
as seen time and time again on Reloaded and elsewhere, but in general agree on certain basics.

Detractors don't like to hear about the 4 items above which is why they always
try to switch or twist the conversation to a bogus distorted narrative of "self-esteem",
"politics" etc etc. But as long as people keep spreading the word, backed with facts,
their propaganda mills will increasingly grind to a halt.


I am not sure who bought DNA Tribe's findings to our attention but I suspect Xman.
One or two examples that correspond to ESR/ES in the same article maybe an accident but a plethora equals influence,meaning our time here is not wasted.

Indeed. there is an impact going on bit by bit. Keita can work the ivory towers of
academia- (the "suite"), while here we work "the street" to push the info far and wide.
So guys keep on posting, and adding to the knowledge base.

[nebsen]

Weekend results for the film" Exodus : Gods & Kings" shows somewhat that the Boycott of this film had some impact. Although it came in for it's premier weekend as # 1, it only grossed $ 24,500,000 far less than the 40 million they had expected. Compared to the weekend of the premier of" Noah "that grossed 43.7 million .

[anansi]

Dec 20, 2014 2:41:15 GMT -5 nebsen said:

Weekend results for the film" Exodus : Gods & Kings" shows somewhat that the Boycott of this film had some impact. Although it came in for it's premier weekend as # 1, it only grossed $ 24,500,000 far less than the 40 million they had expected. Compared to the weekend of the premier of" Noah "that grossed 43.7 million .

Saw a leaked version,trust me whitewashing the Egyptians is only one part of their problem,it sucked really really bad not even the cgi could save it,no character development no nothing perhaps it was a blessing in disguise that there were no black leads in it could ruin budding careers what a boring POS movie.. those who spend $ 24,500,000 got robbed bigtime.
Btw even people like Jon Stewart,Steven Colbert and Chris Rock urinated all over the white wash.I doubt they will break even all said and done.

[nebsen]

Dec 20, 2014 10:35:05 GMT -5 anansi said:

Dec 20, 2014 2:41:15 GMT -5 nebsen said:

Weekend results for the film" Exodus : Gods & Kings" shows somewhat that the Boycott of this film had some impact. Although it came in for it's premier weekend as # 1, it only grossed $ 24,500,000 far less than the 40 million they had expected. Compared to the weekend of the premier of" Noah "that grossed 43.7 million .

Saw a leaked version,trust me whitewashing the Egyptians is only one part of their problem,it sucked really really bad not even the cgi could save it,no character development no nothing perhaps it was a blessing in disguise that there were no black leads in it could ruin budding careers what a boring POS movie.. those who spend $ 24,500,000 got robbed bigtime.
Btw even people like Jon Stewart,Steven Colbert and Chris Rock urinated all over the white wash.I doubt they will break even all said and done.

I truly believe in the power of Intention, & I don't believe Ridley Scott's intention were that honorable to begin with; I suspect it was about cashing in on the Biblical bandwagon that has spawn the likes of "The Bible" for cable (at least they had Black people as some main characters, a couple of years ago) & Noah last year , now Exodus : Gods & Kings. The Swords & Saddles genre of the 50's & 60's I grew up on as a kid & young man. Only a couple of directors of Hollywood like Cecil demille could really bring it , & make films of this genre" Breath & Live" like Demille. He had a flair, passion, & granddesodity ( born under the sign Leo) that could not be matched. Even The Ten Commandments 56' had Black people in some positive aspects, like Woody Strod as The King of Kush/Nubia along with his daughter, a fine sister ; they were treated as equals in the royal court in this film. He had Hebrews, & African servants/ slaves, serving the Egyptians, also the men that carried the sedan chairs were both African/ Black/ & Geek/ White. So yes, Demille was caught up in the times , but he had some positive elements that included Black people. I would say much better than Exodus: Gods & Kings. I have seen enough trailers of this film, to say the production value was off ! It looked more like a set & costumes from the opera " Aida" than a historical film that had been meticulously researched for this time period, in ancient Egyptian history , even though it is a Biblical myth.

[truthteacher2007]

Dec 20, 2014 10:35:05 GMT -5 anansi said:

Dec 20, 2014 2:41:15 GMT -5 nebsen said:

Weekend results for the film" Exodus : Gods & Kings" shows somewhat that the Boycott of this film had some impact. Although it came in for it's premier weekend as # 1, it only grossed $ 24,500,000 far less than the 40 million they had expected. Compared to the weekend of the premier of" Noah "that grossed 43.7 million .

Saw a leaked version,trust me whitewashing the Egyptians is only one part of their problem,it sucked really really bad not even the cgi could save it,no character development no nothing perhaps it was a blessing in disguise that there were no black leads in it could ruin budding careers what a boring POS movie.. those who spend $ 24,500,000 got robbed bigtime.
Btw even people like Jon Stewart,Steven Colbert and Chris Rock urinated all over the white wash.I doubt they will break even all said and done.

Confirmation of what I predicted. A really poor quality piece of ...... I still wouldn't be surprised if one of the factors contributing to the casting may have been an intentional poly to draw people to the box office out of curiosity due to controversy. Even if they had made an attemot to cast it properly, I still wouldn't have seen it. For anyone who knows anything of Egyptian history the historical innacuracies are too glaring, slaves wearing the nemes headress that only kings wore, bad architecture, inaccurate costumes. It just goes on an on. It looks more like something from a set of Xena Worrior Princess than anything historical. Also, the temerment of Moses is so out of character with the person represented in the Bible who was shy, insecure and suffered from a speech impediment. At least 10 Commandments had pretty sets, (even though they were innacurate as well. Well... on can hope that future attempts at period pieces will result in more historically accurate casting. Left to their own devices we'd probably see white people with taped back eyes playing Chinese and other Asians again as well. Wasn't too pleased with Johny Dep being cast as Tonto in Lone Ranger. Seems like the more we move forward, the more certain elements in society try to move the clock back.