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Post by louisvilleslugger on May 12, 2010 19:21:13 GMT -5
On Egyptsearch there was a study entitled ' a letter from Cairo' that debunked the claim that Ramses was a redhaired white person. I would like to take it as legit but it lacks any sources. Does anyone know the source of the study if so it would be much appreciated.
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Post by anansi on May 12, 2010 23:54:34 GMT -5
On Egyptsearch there was a study entitled ' a letter from Cairo' that debunked the claim that Ramses was a redhaired white person. I would like to take it as legit but it lacks any sources. Does anyone know the source of the study if so it would be much appreciated. I don't know anything about it, but Ramses being a fair skinned redhead doesn't bother me. So whaty if he was? How does that change the fact that Egypt was a native African civilization and culture that was born on African soil? That would be like saying just because Obama is president that means that the United States of America was not the product of English settlers, (or invaders depending on your perspective ). The Delta was long the site of multiple incursions of Western Asiatics and Lybians so its not surprising to find a red head popping up every now and then. As for being white? I don't know if I would call him that, but then again, whose criteria are we using? I see people who look like Ramses all the time in Egypt. Some are dark, some light. The writer Naguib Mahfouz resembled him, although not a redhead. Egyptians were also in the habit of marrying foreign queens and buying foreign concubines, so its quite possible that he had a foreign ancestor who passed on the red hraired gene, just as many AfroAmericans also obtained genes for the same hair color from a distant ancestor. Doesn't erase their african origins, nor did it erase his. The fact is that Ramases was no red head I though henna or some sort of dye was found to be the cause of redding or blonding and as far as the USA is concern yes the folks who set the course of what America was going to be in terms of laws,politics and economics where of English origins how ever even before the Mayflower landed blacks had been in what would become the continental U.S after they rebelled against their Spanish over-lords killing some and abandoning them to join the native people..so from the very out set African cultural under-current was being felt..and I am not talking of any independent African voyages here I am talking about those who came with the Spanish..after-all we do remember men like Estivanico and not too long after the Mayflower other Africans arrived..so the begining of the United States or what was to become the United States different than say the founding of Kmt as a State.
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Post by anansi on May 12, 2010 23:58:36 GMT -5
My apologies to TruthCentric I modified and deleted your post by mistake.. sorry . Your original post can be found mixed up with mine above.
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Post by sundiata on May 13, 2010 0:10:38 GMT -5
Credit Wally from ES for digging this up.
Letter from Cairo:
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Post by louisvilleslugger on May 13, 2010 1:09:50 GMT -5
Credit Wally from ES for digging this up. Letter from Cairo: Yes this is the study that I saw post on ES. The only problem that I and others find with it is that it lacks a source. Does anyone know where its from?
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Post by truthteacher2007 on May 13, 2010 9:09:28 GMT -5
On Egyptsearch there was a study entitled ' a letter from Cairo' that debunked the claim that Ramses was a redhaired white person. I would like to take it as legit but it lacks any sources. Does anyone know the source of the study if so it would be much appreciated. truthteacher2007: I don't know anything about it, but Ramses being a fair skinned redhead doesn't bother me. So whaty if he was? How does that change the fact that Egypt was a native African civilization and culture that was born on African soil? That would be like saying just because Obama is president that means that the United States of America was not the product of English settlers, (or invaders depending on your perspective ). The Delta was long the site of multiple incursions of Western Asiatics and Lybians so its not surprising to find a red head popping up every now and then. As for being white? I don't know if I would call him that, but then again, whose criteria are we using? I see people who look like Ramses all the time in Egypt. Some are dark, some light. The writer Naguib Mahfouz resembled him, although not a redhead. Egyptians were also in the habit of marrying foreign queens and buying foreign concubines, so its quite possible that he had a foreign ancestor who passed on the red hraired gene, just as many AfroAmericans also obtained genes for the same hair color from a distant ancestor. Doesn't erase their african origins, nor did it erase his. AnansiThe fact is that Ramases was no red head I though henna or some sort of dye was found to be the cause of redding or blonding and as far as the USA is concern yes the folks who set the course of what America was going to be in terms of laws,politics and economics where of English origins how ever even before the Mayflower landed blacks had been in what would become the continental U.S after they rebelled against their Spanish over-lords killing some and abandoning them to join the native people..so from the very out set African cultural under-current was being felt..and I am not talking of any independent African voyages here I am talking about those who came with the Spanish..after-all we do remember men like Estivanico and not too long after the Mayflower other Africans arrived..so the begining of the United States or what was to become the United States different than say the founding of Kmt as a State.
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Post by sundiata on May 13, 2010 9:15:25 GMT -5
^@ louisvilleslugger. The source was originally in French and I found the citation and original source on AfricaMaat. SourceYou should copy/paste it because I was only able to find the page cached, and even then I had to go to "text only". The page is likely going to expire soon.
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Post by truthteacher2007 on May 13, 2010 9:26:53 GMT -5
The fact is that Ramases was no red head I though henna or some sort of dye was found to be the cause of redding or blonding and as far as the USA is concern yes the folks who set the course of what America was going to be in terms of laws,politics and economics where of English origins how ever even before the Mayflower landed blacks had been in what would become the continental U.S after they rebelled against their Spanish over-lords killing some and abandoning them to join the native people..so from the very out set African cultural under-current was being felt..and I am not talking of any independent African voyages here I am talking about those who came with the Spanish..after-all we do remember men like Estivanico and not too long after the Mayflower other Africans arrived..so the begining of the United States or what was to become the United States different than say the founding of Kmt as a State. The last I heard on the subject the hair was dyed with henna, but according to the Loreal Institute there were remnants of red pigment in the bulb of the hair meaning that he was a redhead in life. My position on this is so what? It doesn't matter one way or another if he was or was not. He was still an African, not an Arab and even if he were, it would not be sufficient to change the fact that the civilization was created on African soil, that it was an African culture that arose out of the experiences and environment of the African continent, not an import from Mesopotamia or the Arabian peninsula. As far as my comment about the 13 colonies, yes I agree, that's why I was very specific in the context with which I made that statement. The language, religion and way of life of the ruling elite I should say, has its origins in England. The fact that there are now Jews, Southern and Eastern Europeans living here, not to mention the many cultural contributions made by various African peoples does not change this fact. However, I would like to point out that America is far more culturally mixed than Egypt was. Egypt had significantly less foreign input in its culture than America does today. It was an Africa culture through and through. This is why it was so fundamentally different from the civilizations around it. Even Eurocentrics like Lefkowitz admits this in her rebuttal of Black Athena.
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Post by truthteacher2007 on May 13, 2010 9:31:34 GMT -5
Credit Wally from ES for digging this up. Letter from Cairo: Yes this is the study that I saw post on ES. The only problem that I and others find with it is that it lacks a source. Does anyone know where its from? I'd like to believe this, but I feel skitish about it. First of all where is the source? Who is the author? Secondly there are too many gramatical errors. People don't have anthropological characteristics, they have anatomical characteristics.
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Post by sundiata on May 13, 2010 10:02:30 GMT -5
^I hate to criticize your skills of attentiveness, but I could have sworn that I posted that citation directly above your previous post. The grammatical errors are due to the fact that it's a rough translation from French.
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Post by louisvilleslugger on May 13, 2010 14:08:02 GMT -5
^@ louisvilleslugger. The source was originally in French and I found the citation and original source on AfricaMaat. SourceYou should copy/paste it because I was only able to find the page cached, and even then I had to go to "text only". The page is likely going to expire soon. Thank you so very much for this link. I think that zaharan should add this source debunking ramses red hair nonsense to his website with all the other information.
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Post by truthteacher2007 on May 13, 2010 15:59:21 GMT -5
^I hate to criticize your skills of attentiveness, but I could have sworn that I posted that citation directly above your previous post. The grammatical errors are due to the fact that it's a rough translation from French. Still new to the site. I checked it out and I still feel skittish about it. The gramatical error I mentioned previously is also made in the original French text. It seems to me that this is someone commenting on the article. I'd much rather wait to see the original article than go about siting this thing only to have some Eurocentric ding dong blow it up in my face. If it is legit, well, to me that's just a big duhhh, no surprise. However, this is the exact description of the present population and there are still people swearing up and down that people as black as Somalis are Caucasians. It won't change the bullshit. People will continue to see what they want to see and magically change people from Negros to Caucasians depending on what side of the Atlantic they are on and what connections they have to any of the great civilizations of antiquity. If it isn't true and Ramses was a redhead, so what for the same reasons as stated before. The skin and hair color of one individual doesn't change anything about Egypt's origins.
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Post by sundiata on May 14, 2010 17:26:20 GMT -5
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Post by truthteacher2007 on May 14, 2010 23:35:45 GMT -5
I apologise for that. I did look up the term and it is indeed used in the context of Physical Anthropology. History being my main perspective I'm use to seeing the term used in a cultural not a biological context. However, I still have a problem trusting things on the internet. Anyone can write anything and claim that it came from anywhere. The fact that it was taken down from the site is problematic to me because there is no proof that it did indeed come from there. Its not traceable. Might it have been published anywhere else beside that site? Is there any way that it could be tracked down? I can't believe that something like this would not have been published anywhere else except that site. Perhaps the University has a copy as well?
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Post by sundiata on May 15, 2010 0:36:29 GMT -5
^While I find it unlikely that the document is fabricated, you do have a good point. I was a little frustrated after I found that they took down the letter, but judging by the comments plenty of people read it to verify its contents and commented on it. I just wish that I were one of those people.
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