White Supremacist, Fake Black Profiles & Cultural Intrusion

[zarahan]

Doug said:
Actually minority business associations were originally for blacks because blacks were the main minority group in the 70s.

Minority business associations are voluntary. Each group has
its own, and blacks have long had their own associations
like Booker T’s Nat Negro Biz League (NNBL) from way back. If you
are talking about the minority biz initiatives of the 1960s and 1970s
which did help some black enterprises, yes primarily, but sure enough
white women and others were quickly added into the mix, and they piggybacked
on "affirmative action" as well.
DATA:


Sorry but there was no support on all levels for black businesses.

Not quite. The bulk of the biz support has been from other blacks but there
were some initiatives in the 1960s and 1970s under the “War on Poverty” and
Nixon’s “Black Capitalism” gambit. Several black companies won govt
contracts or financing under these programs. They were partially
helpful to black business, but by the late 1980s they were getting strangled
by Reaganite era backlash. See scholar Juliet Walker quoted above on this.
See also the legendary “Soul City”.


www.citylab.com/equity/2015/11/the-time-republicans-helped-build-an-all-black-town-called-soul-city/414585/


businesses in the cities were owned by white and Jewish merchants and after the riots of the 60s these people left and took the distribution networks, resources and everything else with them. Dr. King was going to start focusing on economics when he was killed, but after he died and the riots ended nobody seriously did anything to put money into black neighborhoods for business development, schools, infrastructure or anything else. Most black politicians that did come along again had no power to take that money from white hands in the first place.

OK.


As for black businesses, yes they were individual mom and pop shops but no larger black grocer association or black small business development association to support and grow those businesses. They operated as individual mom and pop shops which meant they died once the owners died.

True for some, but there were several black grocer associations- some national.
Booker T’s NBL had a number of initiatives going, as did people like
C. Albon Holsey’s Colored Merchants Association, which was making
some progress until the Great Depression hit. I highly recommend
Walker above for a detailed history of Black Business in America.
everettjenkinsbiographies.blogspot.com/2014/01/000024-albon-holsey-african-american.html


The Koreans didn't just have cash either, they came in as part of organized government programs starting in Korea itself to expand opportunities for the Korean hair and beauty industry.

Not quite. Actually Korean immigrants did have enough cash. And today
Korean immigrants bring cash with them, as well as secondary educations
and college. In fact compared to other groups, Korean immigrants are richer
and more educated. QUOTE:

Contemporary Korean immigrants tend to be highly educated and of high socioeconomic
standing compared to other immigrant groups and the overall U.S.-born population.”
www.migrationpolicy.org/article/korean-immigrants-united-states


Going into the 70s Korea was already one of the biggest, if not biggest exporters of wigs in the world. As a result of the civil rights movement and the changes to the immigration laws, the Korean government actually helped promote Koreans going to the US to make inroads into the beauty industry directly. Again, this was not an individual mom and pop affair of one Korean individual by themselves doing everything. This was about a collective network of people supported by their own government working to further economic development.

Sure. And they were successful in their organization and game plan.
And if as you say the Korean govt helped them, then they did have
cash or credit resources to muscle in on the hood.


And of course what did Koreans know about America and the inner cities? Where did they learn all the bureaucratic processes and red tape that had to be overcome to get into business?

You don’t need to know a lot about US bureaucracy or inner cities.
What you need is your tight ethnic networks providing cash and
financing, a storefront and product, plus cheap labor, long hours,
and a minimum of English. Which is why so many immigrant
groups not speaking English well and knowing little about America
are holding their own in business.


Part of it came from the former inner city property owners who owned the buildings even after the stores closed due to white flight but allowed the Koreans to open up shop.

Sure. They allowed the Koreans to open shop because the Koreans could
put down enough cash to outmuscle other competitors, and grab available
storefronts and corner stands.


The other part was support for government and the previously mentioned support organizations.

Keep in mind that they didn’t need to depend on political establishments
whether black or white. All they needed to do was outbid black
and Hispanic competition by grabbing available storefronts and stands.


Nobody called Koreans racist for having their own "korean" business associations or having "Koreatowns" with Korean language signs on all the businesses. Nobody does that for Mexicans or other Latino groups either and they also come in as a group not simply one individual trying to do everything by themselves.

True in part, but keep in mind that black business is not simply a tale
of one person trying to do everything by themselves. There have been
numerous black biz networks and even cooperatives, in the teeth of
the most powerful and enduring racist opposition. See for example
the book Collective Courage, about many promising black co-ops.
geo.coop/content/history-black-cooperatives


Yet when it comes time for a black business association or black economic
development association you don't get the support you need.

True in part, and part of the problem has been lack of black community
support SOMEtimes. There has not been much govt support either, save
for the successful federal initiatives of the 1960s and 1970s.


You don't get ahead without expanding economic activity in your community. Every other group in America is getting ahead by expanding economic activity in the community. Unfortunately after Dr. king died too many focused exclusively on getting jobs and integration vs expanding economic activity in the community.

True and biz expansion is ONE important part of the package. Jobs is a bigger
part of the package, given that most small businesses fail, whites control/own most biz
properties, and given ruthless competition by other ethnics. Many people forget that
Asians and even Jews were heavily involved in job markets- Jews in the garment trade
for example, or Chinese in railroads and mining, or Japanese in agriculture.

Jobs help finance businesses and provide paying customers. At the same time they
also worked the business end, and kept going higher up the job ladder. The famous
black business districts of old were kept alive by WORKING black people-
ordinary maids, chauffeurs, laborers etc etc. They were they paying customers, who
had cash to pay, precisely because they had jobs. So King’s focus was quite valid
and legit. It could be argued that he should have paid more attention to economics-
I agree. He did not have to go off on the tangents he did when there was still serious
work to be done in the black community, and people at the time told him so.

[zarahan]

Originally posted by Tukuler:
[QB] Outlook from day to day life in neighborhoods
not from books and reports by 'experts'
Real experts live day to day among blk folks
where we form the majority population.


There's a diff twixt
Black business and a
Black person owning/majority stockholding a business.

Beatrice was never a Blk biz
It was owned by a Black man is all.

BET is owned by Viacom for the past 19 yrs
BET is equivalent to modern day minstrelling afaic

Some keys for neighborhood business
* blx w/liquor licenses
* return of blk 'corner stores'
* respect toward customers (sir & ma'am not brutha and sista)


For all where applicable
* Blk clientele not enough, must get the yte gentry and othe non-blk dollars
* Blk 'elites & capitalists' participation from brainstorming to street side merchanting/operation
* sense of collectivity (not meaning co-ops or socialism)


What good was a Blk individual w/part ownership of the Barclay
when Barclay 'neighborhood leasing' drove Blk & blk ppl's owned,
managed, and operated stores out of business?


BTW
Like up to 80% of the protesters are ytes!
and I don't mean the 'Radical Weathermen'
descendents rioting roun the midnight hour. [/QB]

[zarahan]

Beatrice was never a Blk biz
It was owned by a Black man is all.

BET is owned by Viacom for the past 19 yrs
BET is equivalent to modern day minstrelling afaic

Agreed, but BET was originally owned by a black man and he leveraged that
to score a big corporate buyout. SO the successful black biz was in place.
And if it was owned by a black man, it is a black biz because CEO Lewis
used his position to help other black enterprises, and employed blacks.
QUOTE:

"Black Enterprise proclaimed TLC Beatrice International the magazine’s 1988 company
of the year in recognition of TLC Beatrice International’s $1 billion in
revenues. Lewis encouraged corporations such as General Foods, Equitable,
and Aetna to lend money to minority-owned firms. He helped many minority
enterprise small business investment corporations (MESBICs) acquire
more than $100 million in funding between 1973 and 1984...
Edward Koch appointed Lewis to the Off Track Betting Corporation; and
during his four-year tenure, Lewis attempted to increase the numbers of
African Americans and Hispanics bidding for contracts."
--Jessie Carney Smith, 2006. Encyclopedia of African-American Business, vol 1 and 2-- pg 475-476

Some keys for neighborhood business
* blx w/liquor licenses
* return of blk 'corner stores'
* respect toward customers (sir & ma'am not brutha and sista)

Quite possibly. I would add, pool resources to claw back some of
those storefronts, and add enough value to be a match for or exceed
competitors on either price, quality or service. Also tie-in with black
community organizations- churches, clubs, and aspiring/actual cultural artists.
Some rappers seem to have been successful at some of these things,
leveraging their music profits into storefront and merchandise operations.
Nipsey is an example. Any other rappers?


For all where applicable
* Blk clientele not enough, must get the yte gentry and othe non-blk dollars
* Blk 'elites & capitalists' participation from brainstorming to street side merchanting/operation
* sense of collectivity (not meaning co-ops or socialism)

Good points, though co-ops are not necessarily socialism. The book
above on black co-ops show some were out for a decent return on investment,
and provided jobs, cash and credit to blacks when no one else was.


As to the black elites- yes! There is a need for more cats doing like Nipsey Hustle did.
Nipsey was mixing and blending Art/CUltural, straight merchandising,
Social entrepreneurship partnerships with silicon valley, etc.




What good was a Blk individual w/part ownership of the Barclay
when Barclay 'neighborhood leasing' drove Blk & blk ppl's owned,
managed, and operated stores out of business?

Indeed. This is part of the problem, and is why the white landlord can
lease the store space to the highest bidder, and gentrify away blacks.

No heavy disagreements re what DOug, you and others as to the basics.
I will say though that no other ethnic group in the US has had their
business efforts so relentlessly opposed for so long.

[zarahan]

* Blk 'elites & capitalists' participation from brainstorming to street side merchanting/operation



Alas the elites seem to be ignoring promising initiatives. In Birmingham black
entrepreneur Brian RIce bought an entire city block in crumbling Ensley,
a historic Birmingham black district, but per author Andre Perry
( Know Your Price- 2020), he can;t raise enough capital to redevelop,
and white banks are hamstringing his loan attempts. The city gave
the bulk of public redevelopment dollars for the black area to a white
dominated and controlled group. Now where have we seen that befo?
www.cbs42.com/news/developer-brian-rice-helping-ensleys-renaissance/


WHere are Oprah or Diddy, or Jay-Z or Kanye on things like this
with their deep pockets?

[zarahan]

Originally posted by Tukuler:
[QB] Just being the Critical Crab
not backhanding your posts
w/their excellent references.


But basic understanding
demands dropping 'minority' ID

Minority ≠ B l a c k

Black is not to be confused
for everybody who aint yte
and for yte wmmn and yte LGBTQIAPKs
or our new set of 'dark caucasians'
(S Meds, Arab Peninsulars, SW Asians,
and Indians who playing all the angles).

To me, a Black (FBA/ADOS) owned business is a collective.
Owners, officers, managers, marketing, distribution, human
resources, employment, etc., are in Black hands who control
and direct the operative and hire Blx in the same percentage
Indians hire Indians in 7-11 and Arabs hire Arabs in bodegas/deli's.


I think one can contrast People of Color (PoC)
to Blacks.
PoC's are People of Choice mainly. They chose the USA.
Blacks had no choice and were kidnapped from Africa in trade.
Unpaid Black labor enriched America lopsided, creating a low
to no wealth inheriting permanent underclass whom nearly
every people who entered recently by choice exceed in wealth and 'prestige'.

PoC ≠ B l a c k


=-=-=-=

You aks whey they azzes @ ?

They ain't at the place where
eestablishing community stores/shops
is the kind of priority where they
collectively brainstorm and propose
a university / tech school type deal
instructing in every area conducive
of to creating serious viable Blk Biz
in majority Black nabes and beyond.

Heck, they can even make them a little
xtra ching aiding grads establish all
the ties needed to open up a nabe biz
like phs loc, suppliers, lawyers, ...

Of course the most important thing to learn
is treating the customer with customary standard
respect not like a Norman Lear sitcom character.

But what can break the Yte-manz-ice-colder spell cast upon the negro?

Attracting non-Blx/blx to the biz is also a must, all $$$ green.


=-=-=-=

Heap big bad signal:
Rice situations happen
where's involvemnt of elected Black officials?
How could BCC let things get this bad to when
overall tensions of daily Black trauma uncorks
where yte kidz are the majority protesters
at the rebellions sparked by the murders of
George Floyd Breonna Taylor Ahmaud Arbery
capping hundreds more Black lives over the decades.

mappingpoliceviolence.org/ [/QB]

[zarahan]

To me, a Black (FBA/ADOS) owned business is a collective.
Owners, officers, managers, marketing, distribution, human
resources, employment, etc., are in Black hands who control
and direct the operative and hire Blx in the same percentage
Indians hire Indians in 7-11 and Arabs hire Arabs in bodegas/deli's.

Fair enough. I can see what you are saying re some multi-million
compaines, some acquired lock stock and barrel from elsewhere
under the portfolio of a black owner. But could not even these
"big tent" companies control and hire blacks like the others
in some subsidiaries? And to make profits in diverse environments
will they not have to hire other ethnics?


PoC ? B l a c k

Agreed.


You aks whey they azzes @ ?

They ain't at the place where
eestablishing community stores/shops
is the kind of priority where they
collectively brainstorm and propose
a university / tech school type deal
instructing in every area conducive
of to creating serious viable Blk Biz
in majority Black nabes and beyond.

Its sad, because some of these places being
gentrified away, the deep-pocketed blacks could
have been doing things there, ensuring a minimum
of respect for solid old line residents, or at least mixed
use options, rather than entire blocks been
whited out. I understand they have to make a profit-
just saying can't it be done in a more balanced way,
like say more mixed income spaces, rather than total purges.

And the guy in Birmingham bought an entire block but
is being sandbagged by city, banks etc according to
author Andre Perry. Is it the case that these rich black
celebs dont want to support projects that are less glamorous
and won't yield big profits, or big publicity?


But what can break the Yte-manz-ice-colder spell cast upon the negro?

Million dolla question. Buy Black campaigns have been around since
Booker T's time in 1890s. I used to think it was a pride problem but
that may only be a limited piece of answer. Structural disadvantage
is a big factor. Even in the old days white businesses were allowed
to freely operate in the "negro" districts, but not vice versa. The
whites got better locations, financing, legal protection, better inventories,
better opportunities. So the merchandise store of the white man likely was
better stocked and "colder" -with more choice than his black counterpart-not
always in every place but that was the general pattern outside black
monopoly areas like the funreal business or barbershops/beautician.

On top of that most of the property in the negro biz districts were owned by
white landlords, which is one reason that incoming Asians and others can get
a foothold. They bring more cash to wrest away storefronts, and have strong ethnic
networks from the old country behind them. The Koreans capitalized on the
fact that they were educated immigrants with some resources, and to top that
off, their networks controlled the wig trade, since 90% of the wigs imported
into the US were from Korea to begin with. They then branched into cosmetics,
using those networks to get dirt cheap product, undercutting others. No way
your average black small scale comsetologist or cosmetics maker can compete
with these deep, self-serving networks.

To add insult to injury, the big white cosmetic chains began to pump product
into the hood and seriously market to blacks. This is one of the things that
hammered the black beauty industry. Its not all a pride problem.

Solutions? Well blacks need much more tighter, disciplined organization at the low end.
This means more local networks, more partnerships etc etc. Of course, you need all the
essentials of business- like clean facilities, courteous staff, decent product etc.
If such basics are not in place everything else is a waste of time. Just being black
aint good enough. It never was.

Another local idea is to use non-traditional venues like small festivals where
vendors can tie in their product with the cultural/arts event going on. that
way you are not stuck in, and perhaps don't need storefronts. Examples? Early
hip-hop. They had no clubs. No fancy headquarters. No studios. They cranked out the
entertainment "product" in block parties, park concerts, high school gyms
etc. They self-financed their equipment. And many cats began to make money- not
big money but much needed side money, or money so good it was way better than minimum wage.
Cats looked at the market and started hdoing mixtapes, Nipsey Hustle being
a case in point, and began to make money. In time, things expanded and took off.

Another is to seek out different specialized biz opportunities with cultural tie-ins.
Based on convos I have had, it may be that some of today's more educated black
entrepreneurs don't much care for mom and pop drudgery at the corner liquor store,
which in any case means harsh competition against dirt cheap or free immigrant labor,
and deep ethnic networks that can source product more cheaply than you can.
If you had $5,000 to invest why sink it into that hole when you could do something
like the BBQ man was doing. he had 5 smokers lined up and burnin, and was moving much
desired product, with a cultural twist- "Black BBQ" that gave him an advantage.

Hip hop clothing lines are another type of different opportunity or niche market with
a cultural tie-in. Why blow $5000 trying to compete on cheap cotton shirts or shoes with
the Chinese drone guy getting product dirt cheap outta his networks reaching back to CHina?
Specialize into a niche.


At a higher level would be what David Rice is doing in Ensley Birmingham,
buying a block and trying to leverage private investment and public dollars
to redevelop. A similar effort on this level would be like what Nipsey
was trying to do.

All of the above of course runs parallel with traditional
biz efforts and for the majority wage labor that provides the
essential consumer dollars to support black biz.