White Supremacist, Fake Black Profiles & Cultural Intrusion

[anansi]

Asante said [Not to mention that thread where "Anansi" got called out and accused of being white was very disturbing, because never was there a denial on Anansi's behalf with regards to the if he/she is white. Maybe she/he thought it was insulting to challenge their blackness, but still I would make it be known one way or another that I am black. ]

You damned right I find being accused of not Black beneath me and unworthy of a response, who the hell made any nameless,faceless dude on a social media network, spewing distorted bull chips most the time and disparaging African accomplishments all of the time.
Who the hell made him the Black identification police, I'm probably the only one here who put my own face and parts of my personal story both here and ES out there and no! I'm not gonna provide any links, folks who are that interested can comb through past threads..good hunting..
Lol sigh!

Since you asked where is my town, you missed it when I said NYC in a response, but to narrow it down, I'm from the Republic of Bklyn...Crown Hts..where the Caribbean Labor day parade (a gathering of the tribes) which "used" to be gunfire free zone for a day began and ends at Grand Army plaza.

[zarahan]

Asante says:
You seem to not want to acknowledge that Hispanics have a insidious hatred towards black people that they only enact in the Western US where their numbers permit them to do so. If you don't see the issue in trusting people who think in those terms, then that's sad.

YOu need to get some in-depth books and read on the topic to grasp its full dimensions.
All Hispanics seems a bit simplistic. SOME Hispanics ain't down with black folk particularly those
pressing hard to be recognized as white- like the Cubans and some others. But it is much
more complicated than that- and the complication are shown on different levels as well.
There are many Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, etc etc who have long mixed with black people
and fought alongside them against a common enemy. 100% everywhere at all times? No of
course not. But it is not a simple "either-or" situation with Hispanics. It varies.

A few Youtube videos of Hispanic racists spouting' off does not make the case any more
than a few videos of white racists. The skanky Hispanic chick who "disapproves" dating
with black men is laughable, and typical- its usually the fatties or skanks who are the
most loud against dating blacks- perhaps hoping that their proclaimed "pure standards" will
make them more attractive to men.. Good luck with that.. LOL



No they are being used as "tools" by white supremacist to act as sleeper cells in the black conscious community. The African immigrants are promoting the homosexual and intersectionality agenda's that the white liberal people who sponsor their immigration want to push onto black people.

Sure some are being used as tools. But it cannot be said that ALL African immigrants are
promoting it. In fact, one of the big issues for homosexuals is how African leaders, congregants
and churchmen refuse to go along with the gay agenda on various fronts. Again, you need to
do some in-depth reading on the various topics to get a balanced view of what is actually
going on. Here below for example, it can be seen that important African leaders are OPPOSED
to any gay promotion. This opposition has carried over at times to African church-goer immigrants.
www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/23/africa-homophobia-uganda-anti-gay-law

iN fact, note below how some members of African immigrant congregations have LEFT mainline
white churches over the gay priests and homosexual behavior acceptance issues.
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30903-2004Nov6.html?noredirect=on



One of my business that I've had was a cleaning business that included a white church. This white church specializes in letting Africans come over here from poverty use their Church Saturday nights and throughout the week for whatever they had going on. The white people would pretend to care about the Africans taking phony pictures and putting them up all over the walls and ish. The Africans would eat that fake love up, and love white people from that point forward. That's what I mean when I say that many of these Africans are native. The same "race" of people of ravished your homeland to begin with you want to trust like nothing ever happened.


Why is it fake love and why would the pictures be phoney? You are not a member of the church, nor
are you familar with the interactions of the people there. People might well ask, how would you know?
In fact many white church people have done massive amounts of good for Africans in their various churches.
None the less than Jomo Kenyatta in his book "Facing Mount Kenya" paid tribute to and recognized this good-
noting the much needed technical skills and literacy brought by good white missionry organiazations,
and he himself was educated in missions schools. Aside from modern education, just the medical expertise
brought to Africa by mission organizations has saved thousands of African lives.

As for the white man and ravaging Africa- yes there is plenty to criticize. But also in the dock
for condemnation are the African blacks that controlled most of the slave trade, including most of the
dirty work of raiding, warring, kidnapping, raping and looting so as to deliver black captives
to European ships. ALso in the dock are Muslims who over a longer period of time, removed even'
more blacks from Africa to Arabia, in the most brutal conditions. There is plenty of condemnation
to go aroumd.




Everyone knows about Haitians and Jamaicans immigrants. They do not want to be labeled as "black" or with us.

SOME immigrants are like that. But to say ALL is again, misguided and simplistic. Others desire very
much to have what THE BEST Black Americans have. They want to be identified with UPWARDLY mobile middle,
upper and even working black Americans, not drama-filled lower-end "ratchet" or "ghetto" blacks. UPWARDLY
mobile black American men for example are a desirable catch for many immigrant women. They are
much less interested in lower -end types. Indeed upwardly mobile black American men are a draw
for Hispanic women as well, and even some white women- as can be seen by the relatively high B/W
interracial marriage rates involving the college educated black men.


"This writer, for example, is a devout Christian.." --Afrocentric scholar Chancellor Williams, The Destruction of Black Civilization. 1974. pp. 334
Tere was no conflict, but there was certainly cultural boundaries. We had Mexican girls as neighbors, we never knew their names. They were taught to turn their heads as they walked up the stairs into their apartment. I was a straight A student-Athlete at the time who never got in trouble! Their daddy was never playing that game!

YEs but these are Mexican Hispanics with a significant language barrier overall, and few historical
cultural links with blacks. When it comes to Puerto Rcians, Dominicans etc the picture is a lot
more mixed. Does this mean all is sweetness and light? NO. But here again it is a complex situation
not a simplistic one. ONce again, you are not looking at the overall picture.


Big Dummies! They didn't speak to "us" the Afro - Americans, and instead acted somewhat hostile to our presence. That's the game. They're bringing them over here to bolster them up over the native blacks here, to put in many peoples minds that there is something inheritedly wrong with the black people here. This makes genocidal sympathies more widespread...be real!

Seems there's more to the story than that. Yes, some immigrants have this 'holier than thou' mentality
and they should be called on it or critiqued on it. But others are negative towards native blacks
because they may have been victimized by native blacks, or they feel black Americans are not
as focused as they should be on getting ahead and are spending too much time on unproductive
"ratchet" or "ghetto" behavior- which they feel- makes all black people look bad. This critique
is nothing new and is similar to the one many black nationalists have made for years- Malcolm X,
Elijah Muhammed, Garvey etc.. All have criticized the unproductive behavior of many native blacks.

Another thing that mystifes some immigrants is why some black Americans are so all fired up about
going back to Africa, when millions of Africans WANT TO GET OUT OF AFRICA, to a place where even
working a low end ghetto job is better than the poverty, war-torn, refugee situation they may have come from.
The tragic case of the 2 African boys who stowed away in an airline wheel to escape their African homeland
is an extreme one, but they boys desperate widh to get out at all costs reflects the feeling of many anxious
immigrants.
www.theguardian.com/world/1999/aug/05/stephenbates

Black immigrants whether low-end Haitians or higher-end Nigerian professionals, or busy "Jew-Maicians" are
very focused for the most part. They beleive in study for example wheareas native blacks tend to waste
more time in school. They will take low-end jobs and save strenuously for years with an eye to helping
the folk back home, and saving for acquiring property in America. Unlike many lower-end blacks they
will submit to the harsh reality of economic advancement- long hours of toil and study without glamor
or instant gratification. Their cultural outlook is different than a low-end culture that celebrates druggin,
thuggin, pimpin and not working at "chump change" jobs. Focused immigrants tend to get pissed when they see
the amount of time native blacks waste. You can drink and party they say- within limits, but when to comes to
work and study you take care of business- a laser-like focus or the top priorities.
ANd indeed, in oldHarlem, because of these characteristics, it was said that:
"Only the Bajan, can withstand the Jew."


Our fullback was a Mexican (only one on the team) named Geraldo. He was my homie! After the games I noticed how the niggas who were used to the culture would leave him high and dry after in the benches with his dad. I said F*UCK THAT, and would go sit with them after the games. The blacks would joke on me light weight and say, "awww you gonna go hang with your Mexican buddy". It was what it was, and it is what it is. I don't hate other people, but I love my people! When I see that other people have secret contempt towards my people, and wish to harm my people when they have the means to do so then I have to take a stand. Point blank period.

OK but based on your example, it was your own black people who were disrespecting the Mexican
and disrespecting you for hanging out with the Mexican. Yet up above you way its the other way around.
This seems contradictory.

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Bajan Jew of old Harlem.

Choir Master for Garvey.
Composer of UNIA anthem. www.afrikanheritage.com/the-universal-ethiopian-anthem-and-the-ford-family/
Founder of 2 independent synagogues.
'Re'patriate to Ethiopia.


www.blackjews.org/biography-of-rabbi-arnold-josiah-ford/
Well worth the 10 minute read.

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Latino Black Nationalist Hispanics go way back to Arturo Alfanso Schomburg (yeah, that Harlem library).
blackpast.org/aah/schomburg-arturo-alfonso-1874-1938


Know nothing of it today but near the Movement's apogee:
Felipe Luciano was a Young Lord and founding Last Poet.
And there was Eddie Palmieri's daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2016/05/the-note-eddie-palmieri-intro Harlem River Drive.

The two teamed up at the infamous Sing Sing.
In the intro Felipe encourages Black & PR solidarity to "build a nation for all our people."

And of course there was the whole AfroLatin thing going back to the 40's.


Closest I can bring it to today is this 20 yr old one.
Masters At Work ("Little" Louie Vega & Kenny "Dope" Gonzalez)
produced Nuyorican Soul.



Who adores The 7 African Powers?
www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=012747;p=1#000028
Moderator has deleted all reference to T7AP sculpted images I had put in the next to last post.

[zarahan]

Good info Takuri. Never knew about these Latino links above. On those Bajans, they don't have the
migrant numbers, but I read something a few years ago on entrepreneurship among blacks in old Harlem.
West Indians disproportionately started their own businesses- plenty of Jamaicans of course
but the hard-nosed Bajan shopkeeper was solidly represented and only they seemed to hold
their own in certain neighborhoods consistently against the Jew, head to head. One of these
days I have to look up Bajan immigration to the US to see the influences and impacts...

Those Latino links run deep in some places. I was surprised to learn some time back that
Sammy Davis Jr's people came outta Cuba.

[anansi]

what this thread boils down to is , all New World black tribes as well as old world black tribes have issues, sometimes regarding identity crisis on color schema level, others tribalism for the sake of tribalism, but IMO it's not soo forgone that a gathering or coming together is rendered impossible, All our major revolutionary movements proves this, from the Quilombos and Maroons movements of the slave era up to and beyond the UNIA and the NOI, Rastafori made it happy to be natty and proud to be Black without being obnoxious and nasty to others , this on the background of getting slaughtered and humiliated by the young nation's early rulers Euro- vision of beauty, the states side tribe said, my Afro- tho say it loud I'm Black an proud, Madame CJ Walker's financial independence, much respect, but I wished it was in a different field and not the hot comb / lye industries.
But can't fault her too much, at the very least it was a black thing??

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Volume

Where Afrikans outnumbered Euros they, at-large, attained more and higher skills.
When they went to the USA they were on a different operative level, especially in terms of property ownership.
A certain hand of cards is still called WestIndies landlord and Black American tenants.

But because of numbers, Euros played up dividing Maafa Descendants by colourism and hairism much more to their advantage in the Caribbean and West Indies.

White European Luso-Hispanics invented names for and ranked us by phenotypes assuming no internal variances.

I don't know what tribalism is.
I do know its never applied to Euro divisionisms.
White-on-white beefs never get laid to tribalism.
It was Balkinization not tribalism.
It was WW I&II not tribal war.

Euros mean primitive bloodthirsty savages when applying tribe to us.
They mean nothing honorable like "12 Tribes of Israel" or the self-recognized governing tribes in Libya.

But a 14 million strong African people, spread through at least 15 continental nations, and Saudi, and who absorbed some other peoples they encountered,
are a tribe?

That's why I think this idea needs jettison from serious conversation among conscious Africans where others can join in.

[asante]

Dec 19, 2018 23:33:12 GMT -5 zarahan said:

Asante says:
You seem to not want to acknowledge that Hispanics have a insidious hatred towards black people that they only enact in the Western US where their numbers permit them to do so. If you don't see the issue in trusting people who think in those terms, then that's sad.

YOu need to get some in-depth books and read on the topic to grasp its full dimensions.
All Hispanics seems a bit simplistic.

I have already mentioned my specifications of that term to Al Takruri. The people whom I'm specifically talking about are the Mexicans, Central Americans, and Caribbean groups. The Hispanics who not only do not identify as black or Native, but outright "white" are the ones who have animosity towards black people. 

There are many Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, etc etc who have long mixed with black people
and fought alongside them against a common enemy.

Let me start out by saying that both of those groups have their colorist coons, but the Dominicans are by far the worst. Dominicans even back during enslavement, sided with the European enslavers over the Haitian freedom fighters. Dominicans are such shameless coons that they actually volunteered themselves back into slavery after the Haitians freed them, and ruled the Island. Many if not most Dominicans are black as spade, but fully identify and align themselves with white supremacy. Dominicans (though not he only ones) are notably sick mentally as a result of white supremacy. 

 

A few Youtube videos of Hispanic racists spouting' off does not make the case any more
than a few videos of white racists.

So you must not have watched the videos, and rather assumed to know what was going on. The first video was of a Mexicans female telling what we already know regarding how her family and Mexicans in general feels towards blacks. The second video was showing the attempted genocide of blacks at the hands of Mexicans out in California (where they are the majority of the population). This was more than "gang" warfare, as many of the OG's from that area will tell you. The black gangs kept it between the gangs, but the Cholos were targeting old ladies, little kids at parks, random black people walking throughout LA. The fact that they are quiet as mouses where there is at least an equal number of blacks, shows the bitchassness in their group. Most importantly it shows what they would to us if they have power...

NOW YOU DO KNOW THAT THE "CIVIL WARS" THAT WENT ON IN CENTRAL AMERICA IN THE LAST FEW DECADES WERE IN FACT RACE WARS DON'T YOU? 

The skanky Hispanic chick who "disapproves" dating
with black men is laughable,

That is again a sign that you did not watch the video. SHE did not say that she was against blacks, but HER FAMILY and GENERAL MEXICANS CULTURE are against dating black men. So she's not a "skank" for telling the truth that we already know. You're doing your best to not address the fact that that that Mexican woman is confirming what I say about Mexican- Hispanic culture in general being hostile towards black people. 

Quit caping for non black people man! There is no f*cking black and brown union. Only scared (of some race war) Negroes are looking to lock arms with people who don't like you. "WE HAVE NO FRIENDS" - Dr. John Henrick Clarke.

No they are being used as "tools" by white supremacist to act as sleeper cells in the black conscious community. The African immigrants are promoting the homosexual and intersectionality agenda's that the white liberal people who sponsor their immigration want to push onto black people. 

Sure some are being used as tools. But it cannot be said that ALL African immigrants are
promoting it.

Strawman....I NEVER SAID ALL. If you don't have an argument against what I'm saying then just don't reply. I'm not going to address a F*cking strawman argument that I made sure to not fuel with my statements on the previous page. Don't try to fill your post with bullsh*t addressing a weak strawman argument. That's some weak white people ish Zaharan GTFO. 

Why is it fake love and why would the pictures be phoney?

It's only for publicity. 

In fact many white church people have done massive amounts of good for Africans in their various churches.

None the less than Jomo Kenyatta in his book "Facing Mount Kenya" paid tribute to and recognized this good-
noting the much needed technical skills and literacy brought by good white missionry organiazations,

In exchange for;

American missionaries charged with child kidnapping

Watching you cape for white people in Africa....sad!

and he himself was educated in missions schools. Aside from modern education, just the medical expertise
brought to Africa by mission organizations has saved thousands of African lives.

IN EXCHANGE FOR WHAT ZAHARAN? Quit trying to defend these Devils. What in the F*ck do you have at stake here to make you feel the need to defend the social-economic-political intrusion of non blacks into our affairs? 

As for the white man and ravaging Africa- yes there is plenty to criticize. But also in the dock
for condemnation are the African blacks that controlled most of the slave trade, including most of the
dirty work of raiding, warring, kidnapping, raping and looting so as to deliver black captives
to European ships.

Everyone knows about Haitians and Jamaicans immigrants. They do not want to be labeled as "black" or with us. 

SOME immigrants are like that. But to say ALL is again, misguided and simplistic. Others desire very
much to have what THE BEST Black Americans have.

This Haitian immigrant named Q has been propped up, because when he was alive (the white people killed him and now own his popular website) he created the most destructive website of this generation called Worldstarhiphop. His website has really cranked down a few notches since it's early days of almost exclusively fighting and ratchness of Afro-Americans. In general this has been an agent to depict the worst possible portrayal of people whom he does not align with. 

Guess who runs the "Shaderoom" on instagram, "Media Takeout" and "Bossip"? It is Caribbean and African immigrants who pretend to be Afro-American, but who have no loyalty to Afro-Americans. Again it's no coincidence that the most popular websites for black people show the most mind numbing all day, and that they are not ran by Afro-Americans. Instead they are ran by other black people who do not mind compromising Afro-Americans for their own personal gains. 

They want to be identified with UPWARDLY mobile middle,
upper and even working black Americans, not drama-filled lower-end "ratchet" or "ghetto" blacks.

Yet that's all that these black immigrants ran websites listed above promote (about 90% anyway). 

UPWARDLY
mobile black American men for example are a desirable catch for many immigrant women. They are
much less interested in lower -end types.

I've never heard that one. It all really depends....The most stereotypical image of Jamaican, Nigerian and Haitian women is that they are batshit crazy. The stereotypical image of African (Nigerian specifically) men among the Afro-Americans is that they will treat you like a queen, but will also beat a woman's ass. Now I saw a couple the other day of Afro-American woman and Ghanaian man. The woman seems local and ghetto, so we'll see how that goes. 

Indeed upwardly mobile black American men are a draw
for Hispanic women as well, and even some white women- as can be seen by the relatively high B/W

interracial marriage rates involving the college educated black men.

Yeah of course! As long as the n*gga has "MONEY" then he's perfectly fine for at least 10 years (alimony). Then when you divorce him you'll get everything. White girls are extremely versed in that maneuver.

I will say that I don't see too many old black and white couples...interesting. The few old men who I know marry white women always seem to die extremely early like in their 50's or early 60's. The white women then gets EVERYTHING (nothing for the black kids of the previous marriages), and moves on with their lives with the life insurance and a new younger black man. 

Tere was no conflict, but there was certainly cultural boundaries. We had Mexican girls as neighbors, we never knew their names. They were taught to turn their heads as they walked up the stairs into their apartment. I was a straight A student-Athlete at the time who never got in trouble! Their daddy was never playing that game!

YEs but these are Mexican Hispanics with a significant language barrier overall,

 No! 

Big Dummies! They didn't speak to "us" the Afro - Americans, and instead acted somewhat hostile to our presence. That's the game. They're bringing them over here to bolster them up over the native blacks here, to put in many peoples minds that there is something inheritedly wrong with the black people here. This makes genocidal sympathies more widespread...be real!

But others are negative towards native blacks
because they may have been victimized by native blacks, or they feel black Americans are not
as focused as they should be on getting ahead and are spending too much time on unproductive
"ratchet" or "ghetto" behavior- which they feel- makes all black people look bad.

So you're making an excuse for non whites to judge us in the same view as racist whites? If they don't know the context or history or taken a sociology course at the least then they should reserve judgement. The goal of course for whites is to give those ignorant immigrants that sort of message. 

This critique
is nothing new and is similar to the one many black nationalists have made for years- Malcolm X,
Elijah Muhammed, Garvey etc.. All have criticized the unproductive behavior of many native blacks.

Of the people that you named their knowledge of Afro-American issues in an evil society that our people were forced into did not come funneled through white liberals, but rather through genuine experience with and living as Afro-Americans. Africans have been told prior to their migration not to link up with Afro-Americans, and are their negative image of the Afro-American is further manipulated through the telievision. 

Another thing that mystifes some immigrants is why some black Americans are so all fired up about
going back to Africa, when millions of Africans WANT TO GET OUT OF AFRICA, to a place where even
working a low end ghetto job is better than the poverty, war-torn, refugee situation they may have come from.

That is only because the Europeans never really let go of control over Africa. Why are you acting retarded about the facts behind Africa's economic outlook? ish like this should not have to be explained to "black" people on a pro black forum.

The tragic case of the 2 African boys who stowed away in an airline wheel to escape their African homeland
is an extreme one, but they boys desperate widh to get out at all costs reflects the feeling of many anxious
immigrants.

Black immigrants whether low-end Haitians or higher-end Nigerian professionals, or busy "Jew-Maicians" are

very focused for the most part. They beleive in study for example wheareas native blacks tend to waste

more time in school. They will take low-end jobs and save strenuously for years with an eye to helping

the folk back home, and saving for acquiring property in America. Unlike many lower-end blacks they

will submit to the harsh reality of economic advancement- long hours of toil and study without glamor

or instant gratification. Their cultural outlook is different than a low-end culture that celebrates druggin,

thuggin, pimpin and not working at "chump change" jobs. Focused immigrants tend to get pissed when they see 

the amount of time native blacks waste. You can drink and party they say- within limits, but when to comes to

work and study you take care of business- a laser-like focus or the top priorities. 

ANd indeed, in oldHarlem, because of these characteristics, it was said that:

"Only the Bajan, can withstand the Jew."

The fact that you and a lot of people must be ignorant of is that we have TWO different histories here in this country. The people who came over here voluntarily, are the people who tend to move up the social-economic ladder. The people who this society trampled on to form an existence such as the people who were here prior to Columbus and those who were forced over to America and enslaved do not have the same mindset as the people coming over here because we those Africans don't have a history of being made to be mentally retarded on plantations for centuries. Are you ignorant of the culture that formed as a result of being forced to play dumb for hundreds of years? Are you ignorant of the fact that Africans were in no way shape or form subjected to that chattel enslavement in their lineages, unlike American blacks? Are you ignorant of what happened directly after "Emancipation" in 1865? In the span of that 100 years the EFFORTS THAT YOU ARE PROCLAIMING THAT AFRICAN AMERICANS DO NOT PUT FOURTH WERE EXHAUSTED TIME AND TIME AGAIN DURING A PERIOD CALLED JIM CROW. Did Jim Crow kill the will of black people? NO! The last full decade of Jim Crow 1950 was the most economically prosperous decade of Afro-American history. That progress however halted, and why? Integration, which destroyed that independent black economy. This was because of self hatred mindset that resulted in from a century of heinous white supremacy following our emancipation. Once integration hits, that baby boomer generation that is then impoverished due to a collapsed economy, must now settle for the stipulations of welfare which gave rise to the single mother epidemic;

Followed by Richard Nixon's blatant "war on black people" (Afro-Americans) 

So before 1980 we see a concerted effort by the US government to crush Afro-Americans in all manners. African immigrants who came here in the last two - three decades don't know about this, nor do they have a strung out grandmother or aunt with 5 kids from that era who never got it together. The turmoil that resulted from dope being placed in an impoverished community for decades is something that immigrants of all races simply did not go through. "Native Americans" whose spirits have been completely broken by having that legacy of their land being stolen perform even worse then Afro-Americans.

 

This is basic sociology that most people who talk about these situations should definitely know. The attitudes of a people are reflective of their history. Immigrants did not experience Jim Crow to the effect of Afro-Americans who were the only statistically visible minority group in the US up until around 1970's. Below are the effects of Jim Crow and now post Jim Crow racist policies that target Afro-Americans;

and as a result of the effects on crack cocaine on the black community;

Also you may be ignorant of the fact that the Deep South essentially kept slavery alive and well as recently as 50-60 years ago? 

This should now explain that the unprogressive mindset afflicting many Afro-Americans is the direct result of ruthless racist government policies since the 1970's deliberately trying to harm Afro-Americans. Immigrants are also accustomed to what is propagated on telievision. That is the demonization of Afro-Americans for my people's present state in some cases with no context explaining that the United State's government is ran by the white Devil. 

OK but based on your example, it was your own black people who were disrespecting the Mexican

and disrespecting you for hanging out with the Mexican. Yet up above you way its the other way around.

This seems contradictory. 

If you don't get it then you don't get it.

[zarahan]

Asante says:
The last full decade of Jim Crow 1950 was the most economically prosperous decade of Afro-American history. That progress however halted, and why? Integration, which destroyed that independent black economy. This was because of self hatred mindset that resulted in from a century of heinous white supremacy following our emancipation.

Not really. The dual Jim Crow economy did not make the 1950s the most prosperous decade. History once again,
debunks what you are saying. The 1950s were not the most prosperous Af-Am decade in any case. They were good
but not the most prosperous. The most prosperous would come later, AFTER the 1950s, as the pace of integration
quickened, civil rights laws were passed, and black folk were able to attain the major source of wealth for
most Americans- home ownership. And today we have multi-million dollar black corporations AFTER Jim Crow ended.
They would not have come about in by staying in little segregated silos.

The 1950s were favorable for Af-Ams precisely because The barriers of JIm crow were beginning to weaken.
It is integration, and a booming postwar economy that made it favorable, not the Jim Crow dual economy.
For one thing the 1950s saw a general opening up of the economy to more Af-AMs, who, thankfully, did not
stay huddled in the Jim Crow silos others put them in, but went out to forcefully engage a wider world.
The boom caused by WW2 is a big part of the story, but so is the opening up of more opportunities.

There were many indicators of this opening up. Truman desegregating the armed forces was a great boon for
tens of thousands of black veterans, as was the GI Bill, that despite racist southern attempts to
sandbag black soldiers, opened up college education to tens of thousands of black veterans. In many
states, particularly in the north, anti-discrimination legislation began to be slowly passed and applied.
The federal government began to shift more contracts to minority businesses, a trend that began in
WW2 because of continual pressure from "integrationists" like threats to March on Washington by AP Randolph.
Far from any magical effect of dual Jim Crow existences, black America began to prosper in a BIG way
with the WEAKENING or REMOVAL OF JIM CROW. Does this mean there were no positive impacts under Jim Crow?
NO, the organization and solidarity built up laid the foundation for a better future, but remaining under
Jim Crow was a massive handicap for black folk.


Integration, which destroyed that independent black economy.

This is a simplistic line of thinking. FOr one thing the black economy was never independent.
It was always dependent on the white economy and only a small proportion of the black population ever
went into business. Most blacks were wage laborers for white people. And yes, in SOME cases black
businesses prospered- SOME cases. BUt no "independent economy" ruled. Most black businesses were small
mom and pop operations, or small service businesses like barbering and hairdressing. Funeral homes
and other professions did better of course but these were small in number and employed few blacks.
Furthermore a common problem even in the days of Jim Crow is that blacks did not patronize black
businesses to the extent various activists urged. Hence since the early 1900s there have been many
"buy black" campaigns. Many failed. JIm crow sandbagged and limited business expansion, but some black
businesses also did not perform, and/or lacked the goods black consumers wanted because of their
small size, location etc. Jim Crow itself hindered black businesses from competing effectively.
Were there exceptions like Madam CJ Walker's cosmetics empire? Yes, but that doesn't change the basic
pattern.

And No, I did NOT say there were not some prosperity under Jim Crow. SOme businesses made a valuable contribution/laid the foundation.
And No, I did NOT say there were not some prosperity under Jim Crow. SOme businesses made a valuable contribution/laid the foundation.
And No, I did NOT say there were not some prosperity under Jim Crow. SOme businesses made a valuable contribution/laid the foundation.

IN any event, black business took off, AFTER JIM CROW as credible historians demonstrate- Quote:

"Still, it was not until federal government minority business programs and black capitalism initiatives in force in the post-Civil Rights era that the doors of the mainstream American business and consumer markets in the private sector were opened to black entrepreneurs... Until then, black business existed primarily in a segregated race-based black consumer market economy. Throughout the twentieth century there were four phases in the rise of Black Corporate America, marked primarily by markets served, degree and kind of ownership of enterprises and amount of business receipts. While leading black enterprises in the first phase of the rise of Black Corporate America, 1900-1938, had annual sales of close to a million dollars, the second phase of the rise of Black Corporate America, 1939-1964, marked the emergence black businesses with receipts in the millions of dollars. With the third (1965 to 1990) and fourth (1990--) phases in the rise of Black Corporate America, leading black businesses had receipts in excess of $100 million. In the fourth phase of the rise of Black Corporate America, black business activity exceeded the one billion dollar mark, in several ways, in receipts, value of the business, and the emergence of the first black billionaire entrepreneur.

.. Moreover, by the end of the twentieth century, during the initial years of the fourth phase of the rise of Black Corporate America in the 1990s, black business was distinguished not only by federal government affirmative action initiatives, but also by successful commodification of black culture."
--Juliet E. K. Walker, War, women, song- The tectonics of black business and entrepreneurship, 1939–2001 (The Review of Black Political Economy/Winter 2004)


Once integration hits, that baby boomer generation that is then impoverished due to a collapsed economy, must now settle for the stipulations of welfare which gave rise to the single mother epidemic;

Keep in mind that Black wealth, income, education, job skills etc actually went UP after integration.
And black single mother epidemic was not caused by integration as some claim. Black single motherhood
was on the rise BEFORE the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed, and this is due to the fact that
blacks only became full urbanized after the mid 1960s. Most migrant groups from rural background
had an increase in illegitimacy- the white Irish for example saw illegitimacy explode as they packed
into the urban slums of the North. The white English also saw increases and much social pathology like
the Irish, as they too were packed into slums to provide cheap labor for the Industrial Revolution.
So integration did not cause any illegitimacy epidemic - as some white right-wing types claim.

As for the economy, the boom after WW2 actually helped RAISE black incomes. The economy began to slow
in the 1970s as oil shocks, recession, stagflation etc took hold and corporations began to shift
manufacturing overseas. The manufacturing jobs that earlier white immigrants used to pull themselves
up began to disappear as blacks became fully urbanized after WW2.

[asante]

For non blacks their entire concept of "cool" comes from what is cool in America, and of course the concept of "coolness" and "culture" revolves exclusively around fun aspects of American black culture. Buying Jordans for example is a social-economic status symbol in a culture in which impoverished urban blacks dominate. Asians who know little to nothing about American poverty and social stratum associated with it, but go to school with black Americans who are at least familiar with the real situation and see that this is what "cool" blacks wear for status. 

Notice however how mimicking in many aspects black culture is being blanketed under the guise of "acting American". If those people actually rocked with Afro-Americans like Puerto Ricans in NYC tend to then there would be nothing to see here, but Asians 90% of the time are sucking white genitalia and trying to live up to that "Model minority" BS with the intent to defecate on our people. You can't take our culture while your east Asian mom literally trembles when she sees a black male walking down the street. 

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

I agree integration ruined independent Black economy.

$$$ that circulated and recirculated in Black hands suddenly found itself in hands that didn't want it.

Within a decade most Black businesses crumbled up and blew away.
The exception being black quasi-internal nations like the NOI, Israelites (conglomeration of Caribbes, Yanks, and Continentals), Kawaida, and Caribbean communities.

Miseducated negroes who unwittingly attained white privilege for south and east Euros and Jews, rushed to force whites to take their $$$.

Blacks themselves wrecked an internal economy that took paramilitary force to shutdown in 1921 Tulsa.


And will the Blacks commemorate that history?
No, because they are not a nation within a nation with holydays and a calendar.
All nations have holydays and a calendar along with an anthem and flag.

But we can hear Caribbe Brits sing memorial to worldwide casualties of Struggle.
Many Afrikan Peoples, One Afrikan People consciousness.


No destructive divide and conquer by
• language (English vs Spanish French etc)
• religion or lack thereof
• geography (USA vs Africa Caribbean)
All things agents holding back the race would like to promote.

[asante]

Good points Al -Takruri!! It never crossed my mind that Black Wallstreet's destruction should be recognized by our nation. Great idea and point!!

[zarahan]

We have to look at things on balance -the bottom line. Yes some black businesses disappeared but
on the other hand, some were able to expand, once Jim Crow barriers were removed. The picture
is mixed. FOr example Jim Crow corralled black businesses into the worse retail locations.
A bad retail location means less sales. Discrimination in financing hindered business expansion,
and discrimination in consumer credit hindered black consumers from financing things on credit.
"Urban renewal" projects deliberately routed major roads and highways through black neighborhoods
destroying thousands of homes and shops, often with the express purpose of using said roads
to "seal off" black areas and grab extra land whites coveted. These are just a few examples.
Jim Crow needed to be gone. It was a massive drag on black business.

It is true that Jim Crow to some extent created sheltered black markets, but these markets
were always vulnerable to white invasion and domination. For example when white construction
companies found business slow, they invaded the "colored" areas to muscle in on contracts there,
using white labor for all but the most menial jobs. In addition, many black businesses were
dependent on white suppliers for their stock. So the smiling face behind the ghetto grocery counter
may have been black, but he was dependent for his supplies on white wholesalers. Is it a good thing
that there were black retailers? Yes, but let us not be naive about the actual situation on the ground.
Whites still controlled the higher level game for the most part, and used Jim Crow to ensure that
blacks remained stuck with the worse hand of cards.

In addition, some black businesses in the Jim Crow era failed to perform up to snuff. Everyone
from Booker T to Elijah Muhammed criticized this. Some were downright fraudulent like many
black banks and insurance schemes that mismanaged and looted the hard-earned savings of thousands
of black investors. Black consumers voted with their dollars and turned to the white man when
black businesses ripped them off or failed to perform.

Then there were the numerous "buy black" campaigns under Jim Crow. Many of them failed. Part of
the reason is stiff white competition that the black merchants could not overcome, having
to fight with one hand tied behind their backs by the Jim Crow mentality or system.

FInally the post Ww2 era saw the decline of many small establishments everywhere including white
establishments in white areas, as big chains gained dominance, and the most affluent consumers moved
from central cities to suburbia. The outsourcing of small crafts or automation also put paid to
many service business, just as cheap imports from Asia and elsewhere hurt manufacturing. Even if
integration did not happen there would still have been a drop in many areas.

Black businesses deserve kudos for helping the race and laying the foundations for a better
future. Black business people are also role models of self help and "doing for self" - a philosophy
urgently needed today in many areas. But, too often these days, some folk romanticize the
Jim Crow era to paint a rosy picture of a virtual nirvana back in the day. The reality was
a lot less rosy. LEt's give kudos to the pioneers but let's not be naive about the chains they
labored under. These chains needed to be gone. Was there a trade-off with integration? Sure.
There were blunt, painful trade-offs- and losses were incurred. But overall there was net gain from
the end of Jim Crow.

See Juliet Walker author of many books on Black Entrepreneurship
Ivan Light- Ethnic Enterprise

[zarahan]

Takuri said:
$$$ that circulated and recirculated in Black hands suddenly found itself in hands that didn't want it.

Not so. As black consumer purchasing power grew many white businesses eagerly wanted
those black dollas. In fact this is how numerous formerly all white neighborhoods
became black. White homeowners, even the racist ones willingly sold to black families
offering premium prices. The result was the creation of black areas. Same thing in
consumer products. As black cash power grew whites took notice. This is why Jesse Jackson
was able to see some success with Operation Breadbasket. He pressured white businesses
to be sure, but said white businesses took a hard look at the black community and saw
new black purchasing power, uncorked as Jim Crow weakened and the post WW2 economy
bloomed. THey began to hire more black employees, gave out more franchises to blacks,
and developed new product lines designed to appeal to the dollar-flush black consumers.

Same thing in sports. Branch Rickey took a hard look at the game and the great black
ballplayers stuck in the low-rent, negro leagues, oft plagued by fixed games, missed payrolls
and control by gamblers and other crime figures and said- I can be making some money with guys like
Jackie RObinson. And he did. Jackie was a phenomenal draw as a player, and made \baseball
hundreds of thousands in profits. In short, once the black skill or talent pool reached a certain
level and black consumer power grew, whites cast covetous eyes on new markets involving
blacks. They very much wanted blacks and black dollars to increase their profits.
The coming of integration offered great opportunities for white people to make money.

ML King also played on white desire for black dollars by concentrating his initial forces on
white businesses during the Birmingham campaign. The squeeze on white pocketbooks brought them
to the bargaining table. Results were not perfect, but the general pattern held. Faced with lost
profits from black and also white consumers, the white businessmen played a key role in
persuading the city to settle.They very much wanted those black dollas.

.
Within a decade most Black businesses crumbled up and blew away.

Nope. Did not happen. SOME black businesses blew away. Others capitalized on new opportunities
and prospered. As scholars ho have studied the field note:

"Still, it was not until federal government minority business programs and black capitalism initiatives in force in the post-Civil Rights era that the doors of the mainstream American business and consumer markets in the private sector were opened to black entrepreneurs... Until then, black business existed primarily in a segregated race-based black consumer market economy. Throughout the twentieth century there were four phases in the rise of Black Corporate America, marked primarily by markets served, degree and kind of ownership of enterprises and amount of business receipts. While leading black enterprises in the first phase of the rise of Black Corporate America, 1900-1938, had annual sales of close to a million dollars, the second phase of the rise of Black Corporate America, 1939-1964, marked the emergence black businesses with receipts in the millions of dollars. With the third (1965 to 1990) and fourth (1990--) phases in the rise of Black Corporate America, leading black businesses had receipts in excess of $100 million. In the fourth phase of the rise of Black Corporate America, black business activity exceeded the one billion dollar mark, in several ways, in receipts, value of the business, and the emergence of the first black billionaire entrepreneur.

.. Moreover, by the end of the twentieth century, during the initial years of the fourth phase of the rise of Black Corporate America in the 1990s, black business was distinguished not only by federal government affirmative action initiatives, but also by successful commodification of black culture."

--Juliet E. K. Walker, War, women, song- The tectonics of black business and entrepreneurship, 1939–2001 (The Review of Black Political Economy/Winter 2004)

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Were you alive then?
Better ask some people who were.
You have no idea of Jim Crow.

I thought everybody knew negroes were getting their heads busted trying to buy an integrated cups of coffee at lunchcounters. Uhn huhn, because the whites wanted their money right.

Better talk to Black businesses people who lost clientele and eventually shuttered after negroes could force whites to take their $$$.

Hotels, motels, beach houses, restaurants, etc., fell to the wayside as negroes refused to patronize blacks who had always been there.

Experience trumps armchair scholarship by those who weren't there and were never involved.

It's a sad fact Black Americans will not Buy Black or Buy Where You Work. That's why FOB immigrants setup in 'Hoods grabbing up beaucoop $$$ that used to circulate and recirculate in Black hands before gov enforced integration.

Get out the books
Get out on the street

I used to be a street & cultural event vendor.
Ask me why my mini-mart grocery store failed.