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Post by melanitex on Apr 3, 2016 1:16:39 GMT -5
Hi guys I'm new here. About a couple of years ago I came to the knowledge of the Ancient Egyptians as a "Black" population. So I finally decided to research so I could be sure of it myself and after spending a few months here as a lurker (learning a hell of a ton) I might add..
I decided to finally sign up so I could ask a few questions that have been troubling me:
My question is: How can we be sure North Africa was black even in Ancient times during antiquity? let's say 6000 bc to 4000 bc? I have heard many say North Africa was always "Mediterranean" or "Arab" and even when you look at Egyptian paintings the Ancient Libyan is portrayed as pale skinned with a beard. Is it possible that Mediterranean peoples are in fact indigenous to North Africa? If not what hard evidence is there to show this to be false?
Thank You
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Post by anansi on Apr 3, 2016 7:33:11 GMT -5
Hi guys I'm new here. About a couple of years ago I came to the knowledge of the Ancient Egyptians as a "Black" population. So I finally decided to research so I could be sure of it myself and after spending a few months here as a lurker (learning a hell of a ton) I might add.. I decided to finally sign up so I could ask a few questions that have been troubling me: My question is: How can we be sure North Africa was black even in Ancient times during antiquity? let's say 6000 bc to 4000 bc? I have heard many say North Africa was always "Mediterranean" or "Arab" and even when you look at Egyptian paintings the Ancient Libyan is portrayed as pale skinned with a beard. Is it possible that Mediterranean peoples are in fact indigenous to North Africa? If not what hard evidence is there to show this to be false? Thank You   First off the Sahara or North Africa looked something like the Serangethi 6kyrs-4kyrs B.C with the same flora and fauna, so why pray tell all this, just excluded black ppl in a land that stretched right across Africa.  And not only that we have both remains of the people and depictions they leave of themselves.     What however the term Mediterranean is misused it does not in fact describe a ppl and in fact black ppl lived on both sides of the Med from ancient times til the present. |
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Post by melanitex on Apr 3, 2016 10:20:07 GMT -5
Thank You Anansi
Is there any hard evidence showing pre dynastic Egyptians to purely 100% African???
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Apr 3, 2016 13:02:40 GMT -5
At the risk of cheerleading, wow, what a succinct yet tour de force presentation. My question is: How can we be sure North Africa was black even in Ancient times during antiquity? let's say 6000 bc to 4000 bc? ... Is it possible that Mediterranean peoples are in fact indigenous to North Africa? ... Thank You First off the Sahara or North Africa looked something like the Serangethi 6kyrs-4kyrs B.C with the same flora and fauna, so why pray tell all this, just excluded black ppl in a land that stretched right across Africa. And not only that we have both remains of the people and depictions they leave of themselves. What however the term Mediterranean is misused it does not in fact describe a ppl and in fact black ppl lived on both sides of the Med from ancient times til the present. |
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Apr 3, 2016 13:24:04 GMT -5
What do you mean "100%" African? What else do you think they would be? You are in the Egyptology section. Did you read any of the threads? Thank You Anansi Is there any hard evidence showing pre dynastic Egyptians to purely 100% African??? |
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Post by melanitex on Apr 3, 2016 14:51:19 GMT -5
What do you mean "100%" African? What else do you think they would be? [/quote] I mean resembling the Mediterinean type and Arab looking people of North Africa and Egypt today....Why would it be impossble for these people not to be present during Pre Dynastic Egyptian time line and culture or were they? |
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Apr 3, 2016 16:08:50 GMT -5
Did you read what was posted above or are you here to waste time. What is an Arab "type" and a Medit "type'? AEian like all Africans came in all variations but they were not Europeans or modern people now known as Arabs. Why? Through DNA. We know the modern people of the Levant are not the people that occupied the ancient Levant. Fernandez et al and Henn et al for source. So why don't you rephrase your question?
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Post by melanitex on Apr 3, 2016 19:28:21 GMT -5
Did you read what was posted above or are you here to waste time. What is an Arab "type" and a Medit "type'? AEian like all Africans came in all variations but they were not Europeans or modern people now known as Arabs. Why? Through DNA. We know the modern people of the Levant are not the people that occupied the ancient Levant. Fernandez et al and Henn et al for source. So why don't you rephrase your question? No I'm actually here to learn if that's okay with you Arab type and Mediterranean would be the majotity of people who occupy North Egypt Tunisia and Arabia today When you say AE came in all varations like all Africans can you show me some evidence that Africans can vary greatly in color abd phenotype without any kind of European or Asiatic admixture Also can any one point to any archeology that would show the pre dynastic Egyptians civilizations as purely African and not coming from Southern Europe to Lower Egypt or from West Asia Thnx Again |
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Post by anansi on Apr 4, 2016 2:45:50 GMT -5
Did you read what was posted above or are you here to waste time. What is an Arab "type" and a Medit "type'? AEian like all Africans came in all variations but they were not Europeans or modern people now known as Arabs. Why? Through DNA. We know the modern people of the Levant are not the people that occupied the ancient Levant. Fernandez et al and Henn et al for source. So why don't you rephrase your question? No I'm actually here to learn if that's okay with you Arab type and Mediterranean would be the majotity of people who occupy North Egypt Tunisia and Arabia today When you say AE came in all varations like all Africans can you show me some evidence that Africans can vary greatly in color abd phenotype without any kind of European or Asiatic admixture Also can any one point to any archeology that would show the pre dynastic Egyptians civilizations as purely African and not coming from Southern Europe to Lower Egypt or from West Asia Thnx Again I'll let someone else deal with the variation question, but in short different local environments do cause observable differences..it's called micro evolution. Now about Kmt, no matter what influences that came later it is an archaeological fact that have shown Kmt to be African going back to predynastic times, even before the rise of Pharaohs we have rulers perhaps chieftains or strong men that made use of the Ws septer first noted in the Sahara and then on the Nile, we have Gilf el Kabir and Nabta Playta , finally we start seeing emergent pro dynasties in upper Kmt and Lower Sudan in what we now called Egyptian and Sudanese "Nubia" .  Archaic Horus Qustul cemetery. discovered by Bruce Williams showing a man saluting the palace labeled with a bow and guarded by the falcon god Horus.
 earlier example of the Qustul find at Ta-Seti aka "Nubia" of the first example of a Pharaoh wearing the white crown, sailing towards his Palace with bound captive. xoomer.virgilio.it/francescoraf/hesyra/Dyn0serekhs.htmEven further back in time at Gilf el Kebir we have evidence of the sky and earth goddess.  .Fig. 26
Cave of the Beasts, beast swallowing a man with other swimmers around it
.  Although I think the beast Ammit the Devourer makes a good fit. Note the map showing the place of the cave swimmers is in the western desert and right across from what is known today as Egyptian Nubia. A bit further south and you will come across Nabta Playta, as mentioned before, but what is the significance of that find. |
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Apr 4, 2016 7:14:24 GMT -5
So you are speculating that AEians and pre-dynastic Egyptian are somehow admixed with Europeans and modern "Arabs" because of "features"? When there is no scientific proof of this. Well, I have nothing further to add. I am willing to discuss science like archeology , anthropology, linguistics(what little I know) and of course genetics. I can't do the picture spam and features thing. Someone else can get in on this.
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Post by forty2tribes on Apr 4, 2016 12:20:05 GMT -5
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Post by melanitex on Apr 4, 2016 15:17:12 GMT -5
So you are speculating that AEians and pre-dynastic Egyptian are somehow admixed with Europeans and modern "Arabs" because of "features"? When there is no scientific proof of this. Well, I have nothing further to add. I am willing to discuss science like archeology , anthropology, linguistics(what little I know) and of course genetics. I can't do the picture spam and features thing. Someone else can get in on this. Im a matter of fact I do have a linguistics questions if the Ancient Egyptians came from inner Africa (Nubia/Sudan) then why aren't there any links of Ancient Egyptian language to Niger Congo or Nilo Saharan languages particularly Nilo Saharan languages? Also the Copts are suppose to be the direct descendants of the Ancient Egyptians right? In a matter of fact they are most likely to carry the Akhenanten gene according to website DNA Consultants. But if you look at the Egyptian Copts on average they are light to medium brown skinned, not dark brown or black. Why would it be out of the question to suggest there having been similar looking people concentrated in Lower and Middle Egypt during Ancient times? |
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Post by obsidian71 on Apr 4, 2016 15:51:31 GMT -5
So you are speculating that AEians and pre-dynastic Egyptian are somehow admixed with Europeans and modern "Arabs" because of "features"? When there is no scientific proof of this. Well, I have nothing further to add. I am willing to discuss science like archeology , anthropology, linguistics(what little I know) and of course genetics. I can't do the picture spam and features thing. Someone else can get in on this. Im a matter of fact I do have a linguistics questions if the Ancient Egyptians came from inner Africa (Nubia/Sudan) then why aren't there any links of Ancient Egyptian language to Niger Congo or Nilo Saharan languages particularly Nilo Saharan languages? Also the Copts are suppose to be the direct descendants of the Ancient Egyptians right? In a matter of fact they are most likely to carry the Akhenanten gene according to website DNA Consultants. But if you look at the Egyptian Copts on average they are light to medium brown skinned, not dark brown or black. Why would it be out of the question to suggest there having been similar looking people concentrated in Lower and Middle Egypt during Ancient times? Theofile Obenga has been talking and writing about AE linguistics not fitting within the Afro-Asiatic phylum for over 40 years. He and Diop at the 1974 Unesco symposium outlined the affinities of Ancient Egyptians words with that of Wolof and Yoruba languages. As for the Copts i'll leave that to Champollion "In the Copts of Egypt, we do not find any of the characteristic features of the Ancient Egyptian population. The Copts are the result of crossbreeding with all the nations that successfully dominated Egypt. It is wrong to seek in them the principal features of the old race." Egypte Ancienne -Champollion |
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Apr 4, 2016 18:19:03 GMT -5
He hasn't read the collage put together by Zaharan. He is asking questions that is answered in the writeup by Zaharan. eg what is the "Akhenton" gen? lol!
I am done. It is like talking to an infant about astrophysics
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Post by melanitex on Apr 5, 2016 0:20:58 GMT -5
Im a matter of fact I do have a linguistics questions if the Ancient Egyptians came from inner Africa (Nubia/Sudan) then why aren't there any links of Ancient Egyptian language to Niger Congo or Nilo Saharan languages particularly Nilo Saharan languages? Also the Copts are suppose to be the direct descendants of the Ancient Egyptians right? In a matter of fact they are most likely to carry the Akhenanten gene according to website DNA Consultants. But if you look at the Egyptian Copts on average they are light to medium brown skinned, not dark brown or black. Why would it be out of the question to suggest there having been similar looking people concentrated in Lower and Middle Egypt during Ancient times? Theofile Obenga has been talking and writing about AE linguistics not fitting within the Afro-Asiatic phylum for over 40 years. He and Diop at the 1974 Unesco symposium outlined the affinities of Ancient Egyptians words with that of Wolof and Yoruba languages. As for the Copts i'll leave that to Champollion "In the Copts of Egypt, we do not find any of the characteristic features of the Ancient Egyptian population. The Copts are the result of crossbreeding with all the nations that successfully dominated Egypt. It is wrong to seek in them the principal features of the old race." Egypte Ancienne -Champollion I am somewhat familiar with Theophile Obenga I have seen his Negro Egyptian Linguistics Diagram. The issue I have with Obenga is he classifies Egyptian Language as a language family called "Negro Egyptian" with whom other African languages come from like Wolof Yourba Hausa etc etc The problem with this I have is Ancient Egyptian was a spoken language not a language family like Niger Congo or Nilo Saharan but a spoken language like Wolof or Twi Also on the point of the Copts. Champollion lived during the 18th Century how would he know if the Copts greatly differed from the Ancient Egyptians or not? What ancient source is he drawing from to make his assertion that the Copts "characteristics and features" differed to that of Ancient Egyptians? |
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